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Gun Control & RKBA

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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Thu Mar 19, 2015, 10:28 PM Mar 2015

Which of these proposals could have prevented Sandy Hook? [View all]

Last edited Fri Mar 20, 2015, 10:53 AM - Edit history (2)

Requires background checks for all gun sales and strengthens the background check system. This would include removing barriers under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act so that states may more freely share information about mental health issues involving potential gun purchasers.

Lanza did not purchase his guns. he killed the owner, his mother, and stole the weapons.

Other notable, recent shootings such as Loughner, Holmes, Cho, Hasan, Rogers, Alexis did not purchase their weapons absent a BC.


Provides states with monetary incentives—$20 million in fiscal year FY 2013 and a proposed $50 million in FY 2014—to share information so that records on criminal history and people prohibited from gun ownership due to mental health reasons are more available.

A laudable action but -- again -- Lanza did not purchase his weapons and in cases where the police should have intervened they chose to not do so.


Bans military-style assault weapons and limits magazines to a capacity of 10 rounds.

In the 4.5 minutes it took the police to arrive a 10-round capacity would not have made a difference. In fact, Lanza was changing magazines before exhausting them.

The AWB is likely what sank the proposal in the first place. It's been tried.


Provides additional tools to law enforcement. The plan proposes a crackdown on gun trafficking by asking Congress to pass legislation that closes “loopholes” in gun trafficking laws and establishes strict penalties for “straw purchasers” who pass a background check and then pass guns on to prohibited people.

The term "loophole" is ambiguous, at best. This needs to be defined.


Urges Congress to pass the administration’s $4 billion proposal to keep 15,000 state and local police officers on the street to help deter gun crime.

Police do not prevent, they react (except in the case of Columbine) and even then they are not obligated to act.


Maximizes efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime. The president calls upon the attorney general to work with U.S. attorneys across the country to determine gaps occurring in this area and where supplemental resources are appropriate.

A tad undefined.


Provides training for “active shooter” situations to 14,000 law enforcement, first responders and school officials.

4.5 minutes is still 4.5 minutes.


Directs the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services to issue a statement to health care providers that they are not prohibited by federal law from reporting threats of violence to the proper authorities.

Okay but, Holmes WAS reported by his mental health care provider under provisions of Colorado law but the authorities did nothing. The day Eliot Rogers went on his killing spree his own parents reported him to the police saying they thought he was going to hurt people. Loughner, Lanza, Hasan, Alexis and Cho also had histories with authorities and providers and yet nothing was acted upon.


Launches a national gun safety campaign to encourage responsible gun ownership and authorizes the Consumer Product Safety Commission to examine issues relating to gun safety locks.



Helps schools invest in safety. The president’s plan calls for more school resource officers and counselors in all schools through the Community Oriented Policing Services hiring program. The plan also calls for the federal government to assist schools in developing emergency management plans.

Last I heard "school resource officer" means "cop with a gun." I've been told guns in school is not the answer.


Improves mental health awareness through enhanced teacher training and referrals for treatment. The plan calls for the training of 5,000 additional mental health professionals nationwide. The plan also calls for coverage of mental health treatment under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008.

He should really talk to his former chief-of-staff.

*****

CORRECTION -- I originally wrote the post stating the police response time was 12 minutes. I was informed the response time from the placement of the call to 911 to police arriving on-scene -- at which time Lanza shot himself -- was approximately 4.5 minutes. The OP has been corrected, I apologize for the error and I appreciate Lurks Often for bringing it to my attention.
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I don't think smaller mag sizes would have prevented Sandy Hook, but they could have lowered Electric Monk Mar 2015 #1
As I noted, Lanza was changing magazines before they were exhausted. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #2
"sometimes shooting as few as 15 shots..." Thats five 'free' shots he got compared to reloading Electric Monk Mar 2015 #3
"I also think his mom should have kept her guns locked in a safe without Adam knowing the combo." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #4
Cho at Virginia Tech used 10 Rnd magazines... virginia mountainman Mar 2015 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author gejohnston Mar 2015 #6
"giving the teachers a slightly better chance to tackle the shooter or help children escape." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #90
About Columbine... Jenoch Mar 2015 #7
Perhaps emphasis on safety from NRA instead of more guns. Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #8
that is reaction to the prohibition lobby gejohnston Mar 2015 #10
The NRA is the gold standard for gun safety training hack89 Mar 2015 #17
There are lots of gun owners who do not practice basic gun safety. Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #19
That's where laws requiring training come into play. hack89 Mar 2015 #20
As I stated more emphasis should be placed on safety, NRA spends lots of money Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #21
Could you please provide the actual dollar amounts they spend on each? Thanks. nt hack89 Mar 2015 #22
When it comes to gun safety it doesn't matter, safety should be first and foremost, Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #24
Political donations can't be used for safety training hack89 Mar 2015 #25
For every child who is killed it cuts off a future purchaser, this should be considered. Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #27
That is a pretty stupid thing to say hack89 Mar 2015 #74
explain how it is stupid Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #86
Because the implication behind it is unwarranted and stupid. nt hack89 Mar 2015 #89
How much do the "gun safety" Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #26
I don't have any idea, apparently the NRA safety programs are not reaching enough gum owners. Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #28
I Am glad at least they make an attempt Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #29
Consider the Shooting Sports Foundation's "Child Safe" campaign to secure firearms... Eleanors38 Mar 2015 #33
That is a great group Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #48
A year ago or so sarisataka Mar 2015 #30
Great for you Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #49
How about no guns in homes of families with children Politicalboi Mar 2015 #9
that is a propaganda buzz term gejohnston Mar 2015 #11
Let's see ... Straw Man Mar 2015 #12
whats "military style"? Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #14
Whatever it's needed to be to add one more thing to the ban list. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #15
Features like triggers and firing pins ileus Mar 2015 #31
...detachable magazines, collapsable stocks, bayonet lugs... Electric Monk Mar 2015 #32
flash hiders, pistol grips, and things the point up. ileus Mar 2015 #34
Aside from appearance, what, exactly, is the issue with bayonet lugs? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2015 #36
I've yet to hear any argument for having them, other than for close quarters combat Electric Monk Mar 2015 #38
They're legal. beevul Mar 2015 #39
Like I said, the argument for having them is "well, I want it, because I want it". nt Electric Monk Mar 2015 #40
That would be the Same argument for most stuff. NutmegYankee Mar 2015 #45
After looking... beevul Mar 2015 #46
When has a bayonet lug Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #50
I honestly do not understand why you would want one on your gun, unless for close quarters combat Electric Monk Mar 2015 #51
It is standard on many weapons and Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #52
Ok then, so why is it standard on many weapons? (and I think I know this answer) nt Electric Monk Mar 2015 #53
Just so I understand, why does it matter? discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2015 #54
He is afraid to answer that question Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #56
This sub-thread started with you asking what is "military style", and bayonet lugs are part of Electric Monk Mar 2015 #57
And I will keep asking my simple question also in this subthread Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #58
Please point to where I said they should be banned? Electric Monk Mar 2015 #60
You say they make a rifle military style Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #62
Politicalboi did Electric Monk Mar 2015 #64
Thanks, glad you show some sense Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #67
All of which points to the conclusion that ... Straw Man Mar 2015 #79
well by the logic of the great EM Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #83
I don't know if "afraid" is precisely the right characterization of his motivation discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2015 #63
Very possible Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #65
I'm sure it some kind of miscommunication discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2015 #66
It is much easier to make one common part for Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #55
That's all the justification I need. GGJohn Mar 2015 #85
Found one... sarisataka Mar 2015 #44
WWII-era rifle? Straw Man Mar 2015 #47
What extraordinary threat blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #41
Well, without detachable magazines, Adam Lanza would have killed far fewer people Electric Monk Mar 2015 #42
Pure speculation on your part. blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #43
Pure speculation on your part that he'd have killed just as many as easily with only his other guns. Electric Monk Mar 2015 #59
Nope. (nt) blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #61
Have you forgotten VT? beevul Mar 2015 #68
Ok, so if your argument is it makes no difference, then you'd have no problem with mag size limits Electric Monk Mar 2015 #69
WTF kind of logic is that? beevul Mar 2015 #70
You're the one saying mag size makes no diff. I think it would. Electric Monk Mar 2015 #71
the talking point is actually much older than the the NRA gejohnston Mar 2015 #72
Ok, thanks for the quote, but back to the topic of mag size limits... Electric Monk Mar 2015 #73
I think this subthread is about VT Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #80
It's about mag size and reloading. Loughner was tackled while reloading during the Giffords shooting Electric Monk Mar 2015 #99
He also had a magizine that jammed Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #101
limit the cops? gejohnston Mar 2015 #91
I use the 20 round USGI magazines Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #95
I'll ignore the insults, and further your speeding analogy. When you speed, it becomes everyones Electric Monk Mar 2015 #100
What insults? Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #102
At this point, I'm sorry I said anything to billh, asking him to be less rude. That was a mistake. Electric Monk Mar 2015 #104
That was the right thing and I commend you for it Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #106
no insults, gejohnston Mar 2015 #107
"If people make the choice to act like outlaws" beevul Mar 2015 #92
Not lumped in the same category as murderers. More like speeders on the highway. If caught Electric Monk Mar 2015 #98
Governments can do anything if there is no Bill of Rights hack89 Mar 2015 #108
Amendments can be amended. See the 18th and 21st. Electric Monk Mar 2015 #110
True. It won't be amended in our lifetimes though. hack89 Mar 2015 #111
You can't buy guns with collapsible stocks hack89 Mar 2015 #75
"fit the rifle ergonomically to the shooter" Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #82
Lanza could have killed all those kids with the shotgun and handgun he had hack89 Mar 2015 #18
To me the most obvious solution YarnAddict Mar 2015 #13
I sympathize with your view, but due process in court is a fundamental right... Eleanors38 Mar 2015 #37
Only pro gun folks are interested in preventing SH type events, control groups need more ileus Mar 2015 #16
I will remind everyone that autism is a neurological disorder, not a mental illness Lurks Often Mar 2015 #23
Suggested in the OP, grants-in-aid to schools to improve school security... Eleanors38 Mar 2015 #35
There may not be one thing My Good Babushka Mar 2015 #76
Right we get it.... daleanime Mar 2015 #77
Maybe we could start a federal program of free wi-fi for potentially violent mental health patients. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #78
We get it... daleanime Mar 2015 #81
We get it. You didn't actually read the OP. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #84
You lay out your frame work in one sentence..... daleanime Mar 2015 #87
"I reject the idea that there's nothing to be done." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #88
Nobody here claims "there is nothing to be done". beevul Mar 2015 #93
Seems to be a recurring theme amongst the pro-control side. blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #94
very true nt Duckhunter935 Mar 2015 #96
Yes, thinking is a recurring problem.... daleanime Mar 2015 #114
No, failure to give counter proposal means you don't want to do anything... daleanime Mar 2015 #113
Ummm, no. blueridge3210 Mar 2015 #117
The OP deal with nothing but those 'avenues we will not support'.... daleanime Mar 2015 #112
I'll make it plainer for you. beevul Mar 2015 #115
Yes, I know what the OP deals with, I've read it multiple times now.... daleanime Mar 2015 #116
" the standard it asks for any action is ridiculous" beevul Mar 2015 #119
Sorry... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2015 #120
You're being blatantly dishonest. Post #88 recaps those proposals in the OP I believe would work and Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #118
Let's look at this logically sarisataka Mar 2015 #97
Since no gun control actions work as you upaloopa Mar 2015 #103
Where did I say none of the proposed actions work? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #105
No. It says that some work and others don't hack89 Mar 2015 #109
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