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In the discussion thread: Spirituality vs the "God" idea. [View all]

Response to Stuart G (Original post)

Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:48 PM

4. Kind of hard to endure the religious proselytization about a prayer-answering favor dispensing deity

Though they might not require belief in God; the whole program, Steps, and literature is proselytization about a prayer-answering favor-dispensing deity, one who will restore us to sanity, remove our shortcomings, manage our lives, care for us, love us, listen to our prayers, give us power, and guide our groups (this list from the 12 Steps and Tradition 2),

and who in Step 11 you pray to for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out - the same God that you turned your will and life over to in Step 3.

They pressure you to work the 12 steps -- AA's literature tells you that "Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant" [12X12 p.174].

And whose Big Book spends a whole chapter (Chapter 4 "We Agnostics" demeaning non-believers as rather vain, foolish, prejudiced, perverse, and obstinant.

For these and many other reasons, four Federal Courts of Appeals (Second, Third, Seventh, and Ninth circuits) and Two State Supreme Courts (New York and Tennessee) have ruled that Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous are religious and that nobody can be coerced by government authority into attending these organizations (as that would violate the First Amendment's prohibition against the state establishment of religion). No Federal Court of Appeals and no State Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. To date, the United States Supreme Court has declined to consider any of these rulings, thus letting these ruling stand.

Here is a Duke Law Journal article that discusses the religious aspects of A.A. and the definition of religion for constitutional purposes (first amendment establishment clause). http://www.law.duke.edu/shell/cite.pl?47+Duke+L.+J.+785

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Arrow 49 replies Author Time Post
Stuart G Jan 2012 OP
NMDemDist2 Jan 2012 #1
Tripod Jan 2012 #2
Old Codger Jan 2012 #3
tavalon Feb 2012 #15
Old Codger Feb 2012 #20
Stuart G Feb 2012 #21
progree Feb 2012 #23
NMDemDist2 Feb 2012 #27
tavalon Feb 2012 #38
Old Codger Feb 2012 #31
tavalon Feb 2012 #33
tavalon Feb 2012 #36
demosincebirth Feb 2012 #35
tavalon Feb 2012 #37
demosincebirth Feb 2012 #39
LineReply Kind of hard to endure the religious proselytization about a prayer-answering favor dispensing deity
progree Jan 2012 #4
Rhiannon12866 Jan 2012 #5
progree Jan 2012 #6
Stuart G Jan 2012 #7
tavalon Feb 2012 #16
progree Feb 2012 #24
tavalon Feb 2012 #26
NMDemDist2 Jan 2012 #8
progree Jan 2012 #9
NMDemDist2 Jan 2012 #10
progree Jan 2012 #11
NMDemDist2 Jan 2012 #12
progree Jan 2012 #14
Stuart G Jan 2012 #13
tavalon Feb 2012 #18
Tripod Feb 2012 #22
progree Feb 2012 #32
tavalon Feb 2012 #17
Rhiannon12866 Feb 2012 #19
progree Feb 2012 #25
NMDemDist2 Feb 2012 #28
Stuart G Feb 2012 #29
dixiegrrrrl Feb 2012 #30
progree Feb 2012 #34
mrjackshuman Apr 2013 #40
NMDemDist2 Apr 2013 #41
cordelia Apr 2013 #42
Lil Missy Apr 2013 #43
Rhiannon12866 Apr 2013 #44
progree Apr 2013 #45
cordelia Apr 2013 #46
Stuart G Apr 2013 #47
Rhiannon12866 Apr 2013 #48
progree Apr 2013 #49
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