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shira

(30,109 posts)
66. So you don't believe Annan and Ban WRT the UNHRC focusing on Israel....
Fri Jan 27, 2012, 10:01 PM
Jan 2012

....way to much to the detriment of others suffering abuse worldwide? Or am I misunderstanding you? Obama is trying to make a difference in the UNHRC. He was very clear the when the US entered the UNHRC, one of the main goals was to stop the delegitimization of Israel there. So that's the opposite of what you're trying to peddle here.

Now WRT false reports, I'll give you just one example in which all the major NGO's like HRW and AI, along with the UNHRC falsified allegations vs. Israel. It's an easy one. Look no further than Goldstone's retraction of the charge that Israel intentionally targeted civilians as a matter of policy. Now you may not believe him, but that crushes UNHRC credibility. That was the main conclusion of the report. The UNHRC stood by that even though they had no evidence backing it up. Worse, AI and HRW didn't argue against Goldstone. And in fact, they DISTANCED themselves from their earlier allegations of Israeli malice WRT targeting civilians. THEY fed Goldstone's commission with all those allegations. They NEVER once commented critically against that major allegation once the Goldstone Report was released. Only when Goldstone spilled the beans did they try to clumsily cover their tracks.

It's all here in this one damning article that footnotes all the lies...
http://volokh.com/2011/04/06/human-rights-watch-lies-re-goldstone-retraction/

As I noted a few days ago, Justice Richard Goldstone wrote a Washington Post op-ed last week in which he states that contrary to the implications of his eponymous report, Israel did not deliberately target civilians in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead.

Human Rights Watch contributed heavily to the content of the Goldstone Report, and has been among the most ardent promoters of the Report. Kenneth Roth, HRW’s director, suggests that HRW has nothing to apologize for because “HRW promoted the Goldstone report’s recommendation for investigations, pushing both Hamas and Israel to investigate its own war crimes. We never endorsed the report’s finding of an Israeli policy to target civilians.”

I originally referenced lying in the title of this post, but that proved to be a distraction, because, as I noted, Roth’s statement isn’t quite a lie, but perhaps a dishonest obfuscation. Roth chose his words carefully, and I suppose it’s technically true that HRW never explicitly endorsed a Goldstone Report finding that Israel had a policy of targeting civilians (although, see below, on Oct. 1, 2009, Roth himself pretty much did).

But let’s review some of the statements (I read some, but not all, of HRW’s many reports on Cast Lead to find these) that HRW did make, and see whether a reasonable observer would conclude that HRW publicly and loudly agreed with the premise that Israel deliberately targeted civilians during Operation Cast Lead. I think the answer is obvious, and it’s yet another blow to HRW’s credibility, both because of its conflict with Goldstone’s current position, and because of Roth’s current misrepresentation of HRW’s views. (In none of the statements excerpted below did HRW provide any caveats to the effect that the incidents in question may have involved rogue soldiers or units, as opposed to being Israeli policy).

Let’s start with Mr. Roth himself, writing in the Jerusalem Post on Aug. 25, 2009:

Israel could have conducted the war by targeting only combatants (editor: if Israel could have but didn’t target only combatants, doesn’t that mean she targeted noncombatants, i.e., civilians?) and taking all feasible precautions to spare civilians, as required by international humanitarian law. That is mandated even though Hamas often violated these rules, because violations by one side do not justify violations by the other.

Instead, as Human Rights Watch has shown through detailed, on-the-ground investigations, Israeli forces fired white phosphorous munitions indiscriminately over civilian areas, shot and killed Palestinian civilians waving white flags, attacked children playing on rooftops with precision missiles fired from aerial drones and needlessly destroyed civilian property.

(Update: Roth again, Dec. 29, 2009 : “Israel’s view that one prevails in asymmetric warfare by pummeling rather than protecting civilians is not only illegal but also counterproductive.”

And one more time, Oct. 1, 2009: “Richard Goldstone’s charge that Israel implemented a deliberate and systematic policy to inflict suffering on civilians in Gaza is not, as you said, the ‘central organising premise’ of his report. Rather it is the conclusion of the report arrived at after a serious examination of the evidence.”

Then there is Sarah Leah Whitson, director of HRW’s Middle East division, speaking in Saudi Arabia in May 2009: “Human Rights Watch provided the international community with evidence of Israel using white phosphorus and launching systematic destructive attacks on civilian targets.”

<snip>

more at the link above...

The Palestinian children – alone and bewildered – in Israel's Al Jalame jail Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #1
Shackled, and this from the beacon of democracy in the ME. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #3
Guardian Report Misses the Real Child Abuse – 2 shira Jan 2012 #4
Documentation goes back many years. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #6
Yeah, but that's all been trumped by the compelling arguments put forward.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #7
You're missing the point. The source for these questionable claims is an organization... shira Jan 2012 #8
Nah, that'd fall under point #2.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #11
So you have no problem with known terrorists sitting on the board... shira Jan 2012 #15
Yr insisting that the claims of mistreatment of children aren't true. Try supporting that argument.. Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #16
Not at all. The real issue here is the propping up of fake human rights organizations... shira Jan 2012 #20
The Israeli government saw it that way..no other human rights group agreed. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #21
So Jabarin is a former Jew hater who has renounced his antisemitism... shira Jan 2012 #23
You prefer to write your questions in the affirmative as if the charge Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #25
There's no question Jabarin once headed the PFLP.... shira Jan 2012 #30
What you ignore is the pertinent information about the Israeli Court. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #37
Jabarin's organization is quoted as stating terror (resistance) is legitimate under Int'l Law... shira Jan 2012 #38
Again you presume he was found guilty Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #39
No, I'm now going only by that quote that legitimizes terror... shira Jan 2012 #40
What quote? n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #41
Here it is... shira Jan 2012 #46
Seriously, read your own material closer next time. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #47
It's not just that quote. Jabarin's Al-Haq rarely condemns terror attacks on Israeli civilians... shira Jan 2012 #50
You're a regualar riot Alice. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #51
So despite the above, you really believe shira Jan 2012 #52
I don't expect you to do anything but adhere to the Israeli government line. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #53
So you can't defend Jabarin for his inhumane worldview... shira Jan 2012 #54
He doesn't have an inhumane worldview, Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #55
Right. It's humane to look the other way and virtually ignore... shira Jan 2012 #56
I get it, you hate them..ALL of the human rights groups. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #57
No, I get that you have little regard for human rights... shira Jan 2012 #58
You do have respect for those human rights group? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #59
Respect for human rights in general is not the same as respect... shira Jan 2012 #60
All those human rights groups you hate have an excellent Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #61
Wow, I was right. You can't even criticize the UNHRC... shira Jan 2012 #62
Do you EVER read what you post? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #63
Oh, the main concern for you is not that other nations are ignored by the UNHRC... shira Jan 2012 #64
No. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #65
So you don't believe Annan and Ban WRT the UNHRC focusing on Israel.... shira Jan 2012 #66
It may be lost to you that Obama does not hold the view you do Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #67
You're still ignoring the obvious.....why? I'll remind you again... shira Jan 2012 #69
I already addressed Ki-moon's statements..you don't like what I said, too bad. Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #70
You ignored both Annan and Moon... shira Jan 2012 #71
I answered your questions shira, you don't agree with what Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #72
You answered with more obfuscation. That doesn't equate to answering direct... shira Jan 2012 #73
shira the document you claim AI has removed (huge link)is easily availible on their website azurnoir Jan 2012 #74
Oh good! I googled the quote and only found it in PDF form with a quick view option... shira Jan 2012 #75
really you need to read what AI said azurnoir Jan 2012 #76
No, the real issue here is the mistreatment of Palestinian children in Israeli prisons... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #27
When apologists for Jew hating murderers claim anything against Israel, it's suspect... shira Jan 2012 #31
So you don't actually have anything at all to back up yr claims that kids aren't being mistreated... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #34
There is a simple test to determine if you're a humanitarian racist, don't ya know this Violet? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #10
OMG. I thought that was some sort of parody when I first read it.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #13
I found his question so up in the air, for one..he doesn't Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #18
What's wrong with the 3rd question? shira Jan 2012 #14
It's engaging in negative stereotyping of an entire people, that's what's wrong with it... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #17
That third question isn't negative stereotyping an entire people... shira Jan 2012 #19
Yes, it is. It would be if it was aimed at Israelis, and it's the same when aimed at Palestinians... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #28
The PLO says resistance (the murdering of Jews) is legitimate... shira Jan 2012 #33
Complete and utter bullshit. The PLO does NOT say the murdering of Jews is legitimate.... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #35
Yeah, actually they do. They just call it legitimate "resistance" instead of... shira Jan 2012 #36
No, actually they don't say it at all. You falsely claim they say it... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #48
How many examples do you require in order to see that they really do say it? shira Jan 2012 #49
All I've seen so far is yr opinion, based on the opinions of zealoted American 'pro-Israel' groups.. Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #68
Where and how often have you exposed the profoundly murderous ( Islamaphobic) worldview Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #22
That's a moronic comparison. You don't think there's a significant.... shira Jan 2012 #24
Your response is very interesting and likely explains why you posted the OP in the first place. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #26
Yep. The double standards are mind boggling n/t Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #29
So you're denying murderous antisemitism is a significant problem in the Palestinian territories? shira Jan 2012 #32
Guardian's Israel correspondent promotes agenda of radical anti-Israel NGO shira Jan 2012 #5
+1. bemildred Jan 2012 #2
seems Palestinian children are less so tha others to some here azurnoir Jan 2012 #9
Cell 36: Palestinian children locked in solitary confinement in Israel - video Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #12
15 Jan. '12: Judge holds confession of Palestinian minor admissible, although it was obtained Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #42
so confessions 'coerced ' from Palestinian minors (chilldren) are okay in Israel azurnoir Jan 2012 #43
It's all blown out of proportion...don't you realize this?? Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #44
short answer nobody long answer azurnoir Jan 2012 #45
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