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pelsar

(12,283 posts)
4. this is very simple....but its foundation may be difficult...its not based on nationalism
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:48 AM
Jun 2012

the base foundation is that nationalism as per your belief that has now (finally) been clarified, is not the most important value for the establishment of a state.

previous to the establishment of a state, in order not to insure a failed stated is stability and that stability is best served with some form of established based in western civil rights. The PA that your advocating for, is clearly not stable. It is the very same PA that was in gaza that hamas so easily took over and just last week fired over 100 rockets into israel. A repeat in the jordan valley should not be risked (smuggling routes would easily be established- i.e.. a repeat of gaza)

Its quite simple: in our view nationalism as first priority above the establishment of a stable western style govt is not a the way for a peaceful region.....it may the progressive/right wing point of view, but its not good for the liberal country next door.

It's always about the money, isn't it? bemildred Jun 2012 #1
gaza? pelsar Jun 2012 #2
so Israel has security reasons for it's hold on the Jordan river valley? azurnoir Jun 2012 #3
this is very simple....but its foundation may be difficult...its not based on nationalism pelsar Jun 2012 #4
Right, but you are assuming they will be incompetent and hostile. bemildred Jun 2012 #5
The fact that nobody pays attention to South Africa now is really sad oberliner Jun 2012 #6
I assume the South Africans are happy to not be in the global spotlight. bemildred Jun 2012 #7
The fear is that once there's an unstable Palestinian state in place, war will be imminent... shira Jun 2012 #9
I know what the fear is, but fear makes you stupid too. bemildred Jun 2012 #11
Rational fear based on history and facts is not stupidity. Stupidity is not learning from... shira Jun 2012 #13
You assume your conclusion, as usual, i.e. that fear is rational. bemildred Jun 2012 #15
Fine, don't look at it as fear then. Look at it as a rational educated opinion/position... shira Jun 2012 #18
I look on fear as fear. bemildred Jun 2012 #20
Stuiped is not having a plan B pelsar Jul 2012 #27
are you suggesting Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #30
No. bemildred Jul 2012 #32
What do you make of people who are irrationally fearless or in denial of danger? n/t shira Jul 2012 #76
Not much. bemildred Jul 2012 #77
Look ma - no hands. Bradlad Jun 2012 #8
Right, so you just assume that is a permanent condition? bemildred Jun 2012 #10
No, I think you and many progressives & right-wingers think that's permanent... shira Jun 2012 #12
You are sooo fond of sweeping generalities. bemildred Jun 2012 #16
So correct me if I'm wrong, but your position is Palestinian nationality first, then civil rights... shira Jun 2012 #19
I'm correcting, you are wrong. bemildred Jun 2012 #21
The Palestinians require more control of their own affairs....okay. Then would you say in Gaza... shira Jun 2012 #22
No. bemildred Jun 2012 #23
It's Gaza's choice to be under blockade, at war, to have a poor economy, to be weak... shira Jun 2012 #24
Yeah, it's really simple, isn't it? bemildred Jun 2012 #25
if you take the viewpoint that the gazans are capable people than yes.... pelsar Jul 2012 #28
So.... Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #29
Justifiable question. Bradlad Jun 2012 #14
And what is this entity that "wants" things? bemildred Jun 2012 #17
the assumption is that, being incompetent and hostile is a real possibility.... pelsar Jul 2012 #26
Incompetent and hostile is the current situation, no need to speculate. bemildred Jul 2012 #33
precisely...which is why its time for a change...a real change, not more of the same pelsar Jul 2012 #35
Oh my. nt bemildred Jul 2012 #41
The current policies are not working? Bradlad Jul 2012 #36
"something less than ideal". bemildred Jul 2012 #39
What? Bradlad Jul 2012 #44
You seem to think the current policies are "working", eh? bemildred Jul 2012 #46
I guess you need to . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #48
Ha ha! I knew it. nt bemildred Jul 2012 #49
Well, I suppose I should be forthcoming ... bemildred Jul 2012 #51
I agree Bradlad Jul 2012 #55
israeli internal conflicts is defining "not working"....sheesh pelsar Jul 2012 #57
Everybody has internal conflicts, I'm talking about trends. bemildred Jul 2012 #58
what trends? pelsar Jul 2012 #60
Here, this kind of thing: bemildred Jul 2012 #59
graphic showing water distribution West Bank azurnoir Jul 2012 #31
Rather than . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #34
you r cute little links leave out one thing per Oslo all water projects must be intitiated azurnoir Jul 2012 #37
What's your point? Bradlad Jul 2012 #38
perhaps you should reread my comment then azurnoir Jul 2012 #40
So then . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #42
so you admit the graphic is true? but then attempt to justify it? azurnoir Jul 2012 #43
What you've said . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #45
Israel is using the terms of the agreement to stymie Palestinian water development azurnoir Jul 2012 #47
Than you (or someone) should take them to court. Bradlad Jul 2012 #50
Thank you for admitting that Israel uses the agreement to stop Palestinian development azurnoir Jul 2012 #52
A good example . . Bradlad Jul 2012 #53
the facts of the case speak for themselves don't they? azurnoir Jul 2012 #54
not really. Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #56
well Israel does adhere to the parts of Oslo that it wants too azurnoir Jul 2012 #61
You think really? Shaktimaan Jul 2012 #62
lol ya Israel left Lebanon alright and then used azurnoir Jul 2012 #63
actually its more.... pelsar Jul 2012 #66
well its nice to see how many thousands of Arab children you think one Jewish child is worth azurnoir Jul 2012 #69
its more personal.... my kids pelsar Jul 2012 #70
well as anyone reading this thread can tell there is certainly a group think mentality going on azurnoir Jul 2012 #73
does being show to be wrong..affect anything? pelsar Jul 2012 #64
there is a difference between what your article shows to be Israel and what you azurnoir Jul 2012 #65
not according to the graphic... pelsar Jul 2012 #67
Here is the graphic once again it is explicitly about the West Bank azurnoir Jul 2012 #68
so your against water management.......and adhering to agreements.... pelsar Jul 2012 #71
well I do understand why as a loyal Israeli why you'd azurnoir Jul 2012 #72
guess you missed the question... pelsar Jul 2012 #74
no I did not miss your 'question' but the fallback position of"but, but, but it's legal" azurnoir Jul 2012 #75
you just don't like the result....but thats why there are agreements pelsar Jul 2012 #78
Israel has very good water managment for Israeli's and only for Israel's azurnoir Jul 2012 #79
must remember..the ends justifies the means pelsar Jul 2012 #80
Tens of thousands of Palestinians suffer from water supply disruptions in East Jerusalem azurnoir Jul 2012 #81
very good.... pelsar Jul 2012 #82
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