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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #17)

Wed Sep 24, 2014, 10:36 PM

18. Winchester was to well known a name NOT to revive, but as a company it is NOT what it use to be,

 

Last edited Wed Sep 24, 2014, 11:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Except for a holdover from the 2012 Model year, all Winchester Model 70s sold NEW today use pre 1964 "Control Feed" Bolts:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/category.asp?family=001C

On January 16, 2006 U.S. Repeating Arms announced it was closing its New Haven plant where Winchester rifles and shotguns had been produced for 140 years.[5] Along with the closing of the plant, production of the Model 94 rifle (the descendant of the original Winchester rifle), Model 70 rifle and Model 1300 shotgun were discontinued.

On August 15, 2006, Olin Corporation, owner of the Winchester trademarks, announced that it had entered into a new license agreement with Browning to make Winchester brand rifles and shotguns, though not at the closed Winchester plant in New Haven. The production of Model 1885 falling block action, Model 1892 and Model 1886 lever action rifles are produced under licensed agreement by Miroku Corp. of Japan and imported back to United States by Browning.

In 2008 Fabrique Nationale announced that it would produce Model 70 rifles at its plant in Columbia, SC. In 2013, assembly was moved to Portugal.

In the summer of 2010 Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) resumed production of the Winchester model 1894 and the evolution of the Winchester 1300, now called the Winchester SXP.[8][9]

A number of gun cleaning kits, Chinese folding knives, tools, and other accessories are also now sold under the Winchester trademark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Repeating_Arms_Company#Decline_and_fall


Now the above comment from Wikipedia has some errors in it, the Model 1894 was NOT a descendant from earlier Winchester. Yes the Model 1866 and 1873 had been level actions like the Model 1894, the design was completely different. In 1881 Marlin had come out with its 1881 level actions rifle, which could do something no Winchester of that time period could do, fire the standard ammunition used by the US Army, the 45-70. The Winchester 1866 and 1873 (and the stronger Model 1876) could NOT handle that round. The level action was to weak (You could have the gun shot the bolt into the head of the shooter).

Thus Winchester approached John Browning to design a new level action that could fire the 45-70 Round. Browning had sold Winchester his single action rifle design (the Model 1885) and had shown he knew how to design a firearm. Thus Browning came up with the Winchester Model 1886. Not only was the action STRONGER then the 1866, 1873 and 1876 models, it was also CHEAPER to make.

Winchester then asked Browning to redesign their whole rifle stock. Browning did so with the Model 1892, which replaced the Model 1873 (the Model 1866 had been replaced by the model 1873, and given the success of the Model 1886, the model 1876 stopped being produced for everything it could do, the model 1886 could do better and cheaper). The model 1894 was a close copy of the Model 1892, except designed for the then new and more powerful smokeless powder round 30-30 Winchester (The model 1873, 1866 and 1892 had been designed around the 44-40 round, a weaker round that used older and weaker black powder).

Winchester did make level actions after the 1894, but they were replaced by the Model 70 Bolt Action rifle after 1920 (For example the model 1895, that Theodore Roosevelt used in Cuba) OR variation of the 1886 (for those people who for various reasons stayed with the black powder 45-70 when it was replaced by the Smokeless powder 30-40 Krag in 1892 OR the 30'06 round when that round was adopted in 1906).

It appears Winchester produced post 1964 Winchester Model 70 till 2013, then shut down that plant and moved it to Portugal. Portugal had produced Mauser Rifles prior to the 1950s and seems to retain the ability to do so afterward, for those rifles were kept as "War stocks" till the 1990s.

Remington sold a Mauser Control Feed Rifle from 2006-2008 with an action made in Serbia. Remington still has an agreement with that firm to sell its weapons in the US. Serbia MADE Mauser 1898 models till 1965, and rebuilt as late as 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_798

http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/gyougoen.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zastava_Arms

Please note the model 1898 action is considered SO Strong, that it has been used for .50 Caliber Machine Gun ammunition (in fact the US Army obtains a series of these made for Germany in 1918 as an anti-tank weapon, and used them for .50- caliber development till WWII, when the excessive use and increased budget, made them "unsafe" and replaceable).

Winchester had saw this during WWI, thus after WWI Winchester came out with its Model 70 in 1936

The Control Feed Winchester was made from 1936-1964, then a bolt like the Remington Model 70 was used from 1964 to 2006. From 2008 Winchester has returned to using ONLY pre 1964 actions, but as noted above as late as 2012 those post 1964 actions were being produced.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_70#Military_Use

This revival of the Winchester Model 70 is mostly the result of increase use of computers to make and fit the parts. If the parts are close enough, you minimize any hand fitting needed and thus the costs. Thus after all of the above, we are back to Computers and how they have made it possible to produce things at much cheaper prices by cutting back the amount of skilled labor needed. The hand fitting had to be done by SKILLED LABOR not someone off the street. Today, it is a lot easier to get someone off the street to do the jobs for the parts are made with that close of a tolerance.

Technically the Model 70 was derived from the Winchester Model 54, introduced in 1919. The differences involved both the trigger (improved in the model 70) and the introduction of modified safety. The actual safety was NOT changed, but HOW the safety was put into and out of use was changed, so that scopes could be used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_54

Thus I am happy that such a company name is back, but we have to remember it is NOT the Winchester of even the Vietnam War Era.

Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) now owns the name of Winchester Firearms. FN also produced Mauser 1898 actions, thus going back to a version of the 1898 (and many consider the best version) not a big step. FN now controls the Name Winchester.

Please note FN was founded to produce weapons, but received its biggest boost when John Browning, having demanded royalties for his designed and being REFUSED such royalties by both Winchester AND Colt, when to FN to produce his designs. FN also had the exclusive right to sell Browning's later Machine Gun and Pistols designs. Thus FN, which PAID Browning a Royalty, now owns Winchester who had refused to do so.

Thus I am sad Winchester is no longer an American Company, but at the same time it is own by a company that was willing to pay for what it wanted to produce.

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IrishAyes Sep 2014 OP
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Eleanors38 Sep 2014 #17
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply Winchester was to well known a name NOT to revive, but as a company it is NOT what it use to be,
happyslug Sep 2014 #18
cbayer Sep 2014 #7
IrishAyes Sep 2014 #11
LiberalEsto Sep 2014 #8
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