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Response to Searay60 (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 8, 2013, 02:24 PM

6. It is no more "the key" than power lines are "the key"

As I said, yes we need some storage. But that isn't "the key". Replacing carbon with clean generation is "the key" - nothing else.

What you've written is somewhat accurate, but some critical elements are inaccurate and the emphasis is inapt as it creates the impression that there is some sort of technical barrier or massive storage rollout effort that must be accomplished before we really get down to concentrating on the generating side. That simply isn't the case.

It is also a bit inappropriate because it creates the sense that the variability issue is larger, more unusual, and more difficult to deal with than is actually the case.

The needed storage is going to be rolled out as the economic niches develop. FERC just gave storage equal access to the grid by requiring that, when a need for grid services is evaluated by ISOs and utilities, the rapid response characteristics of battery storage are included. The prior rule structure favored fossil sources.

The ramp up of battery electric vehicles and Vehicle 2 Grid technology is also in progress, and in the not too distant future that will put in place a massive pool of energy storage resources that the utilities can 'rent' from the vehicle owners as needed.

You wrote, "If wind were cheaper then Utilities would be rushing to add Turbines to the grid instead of Natural gas CT units."

Would you care to share with us the amounts of new capacity added in the past two years by technology? I think you'll find the rush is on.

Establishing the cost of integration is a normal part of any project and is not significant; there are greater costs involved with ensuring emergency back-up for large scale thermal coal and (particularly) nuclear plants.

You might enjoy reading this.

Cost-minimized combinations of wind power, solar power and electrochemical storage, powering the grid up to 99.9% of the time
Cory Budischaka, DeAnna Sewellc, Heather Thomsonc, Leon Machd, Dana E. Veronc, Willett Kempton,
Open Access Article http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775312014759

We model many combinations of renewable electricity sources (inland wind, offshore wind, and photovoltaics) with electrochemical storage (batteries and fuel cells), incorporated into a large grid system (72 GW). The purpose is twofold:
1) although a single renewable generator at one site produces intermittent power, we seek combinations of diverse renewables at diverse sites, with storage, that are not intermittent and satisfy need a given fraction of hours. And
2) we seek minimal cost, calculating true cost of electricity without subsidies and with inclusion of external costs.

Our model evaluated over 28 billion combinations of renewables and storage, each tested over 35,040 h (four years) of load and weather data. We find that the least cost solutions yield seemingly-excessive generation capacity — at times, almost three times the electricity needed to meet electrical load. This is because diverse renewable generation and the excess capacity together meet electric load with less storage, lowering total system cost.

At 2030 technology costs and with excess electricity displacing natural gas, we find that the electric system can be powered 90%–99.9% of hours entirely on renewable electricity, at costs comparable to today's—but only if we optimize the mix of generation and storage technologies.

Open Access Article http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775312014759

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kristopher Dec 2013 OP
bloomington-lib Dec 2013 #1
randr Dec 2013 #2
Searay60 Dec 2013 #3
kristopher Dec 2013 #4
Searay60 Dec 2013 #5
LineLineLineLineLineNew Reply It is no more "the key" than power lines are "the key"
kristopher Dec 2013 #6
Searay60 Dec 2013 #7
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