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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: Mileage (mpg) Using Ethanol Seen 20% Higher Than EPA Says - Bloomberg [View all]Bill USA
(6,436 posts)43. how much pressure is the gas under in your brother's car? see link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_vehicle
CNG as an auto fuel[edit source]
CNG, or compressed natural gas, is stored at high pressure, 3,000 to 3,600 pounds per square inch (21 to 25 MPa). The required tank is more massive and costly than a conventional fuel tank. Refueling stations are more expensive to operate than LNG stations because of the energy required for compression. Time to fill a CNG tank varies greatly depending on the station. Home refuelers typically fill at about 0.4 GGE/hr. "Fast-fill" stations may be able to refill a 10 GGE tank in 510 minutes. Also, because of the lower energy density, the range on CNG is limited by comparison to LNG.
2012 Honda Civic - Natural Gas
Starting at $26,305[1]
2012 Honda Civic - Edmund's http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2012/
DX - $13,320
LX - $14,498
EX - $16,362
[font size="4"] okay, $10,000 to $13,000 extra for NG Civic[/font]
CNG as an auto fuel[edit source]
CNG, or compressed natural gas, is stored at high pressure, 3,000 to 3,600 pounds per square inch (21 to 25 MPa). The required tank is more massive and costly than a conventional fuel tank. Refueling stations are more expensive to operate than LNG stations because of the energy required for compression. Time to fill a CNG tank varies greatly depending on the station. Home refuelers typically fill at about 0.4 GGE/hr. "Fast-fill" stations may be able to refill a 10 GGE tank in 510 minutes. Also, because of the lower energy density, the range on CNG is limited by comparison to LNG.
2012 Honda Civic - Natural Gas
Starting at $26,305[1]
2012 Honda Civic - Edmund's http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2012/
DX - $13,320
LX - $14,498
EX - $16,362
[font size="4"] okay, $10,000 to $13,000 extra for NG Civic[/font]
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Mileage (mpg) Using Ethanol Seen 20% Higher Than EPA Says - Bloomberg [View all]
Bill USA
Sep 2013
OP
they improved combustion of ethanol by increazing spark advance which higher octane ethanol or
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#7
You are, sadly, misinformed. EPA uses the Heating Value of ethanol compared to gasoline's HV
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#14
I never said one could optimize engines to runon ethanol & double th fuel efficiency of current FFVs
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#21
three MIT scientists designed a DI turbocharged engine with ethanol (DI) that gets 25-30% better mpg
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#22
CORRECTION: Ethanol's Fuel Efficiency (per EPA) is DOUBLED by the Ethanol DI turbocharged engine
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#24
Ethanol's portion of the increase in price of food 9.8% - 15.7%, Energy's portion: 35% - CBO
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#25
thats not the whole picture. octane rating is important cause you burning the fuel under compression
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#8
Yes. Neither is burned with 100% efficiency. Any improvement in either is great!
NYC_SKP
Sep 2013
#9
it's okay to be skeptical. Here is a link to a report on research by Michael Wang, U.S. Argonne
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#19
You can easily adjust spark advance, but not compression ratio. So, you won't get optimal results
leveymg
Sep 2013
#27
it's done by having computer control a turbo-charger. Fuel is monitored for alcohol content which
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#28
Of course, with the same variable boost you can achieve higher MPG running gasoline than alky
leveymg
Sep 2013
#30
a higher octane, higher latent heat fuel (ethanol, methanol) will always enable higher boosts than a
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#33
As a practical matter, gas engines rarely run more than 15 pounds boost (1.0 bar) on the street
leveymg
Sep 2013
#34
your personal attack on me does not make up for your lack of an argument. You are claiming that I
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#72
your personal brand of logic seems to allow you to assert "A" and "not A" simultaneously.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#95
the article refers to a study (link provided) that involved altering the ignition timing of the cars
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#15
the study referred to in the article in OP points out that current FFVs CAN DO MUCH BETTER- IF THE
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#18
this won't happen but what should be done is add methanol to the ethanol for blending with gas. In
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#35
the cost of buiding the infrastructure to distribute it would be enormous. The cars are not cheap.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#39
cost of CNG fueling station $10,000 to $2 million. Which do you think is the commercial application?
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#45
I expect you'll be buying the NG Civic for an additional $10,000?? be my guest.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#48
http://scarcewhales.blogspot.com/2009/10/petropolis-and-brazilian-ethanol.html?m=1
wercal
Sep 2013
#56
the Real cost of oil/gasoline: Over $5.28 a gallon National DEfense Council study
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#58
almost all the of ethanol consumed @ a 10% blend used by all drivers in U.S. in 2012 13.2 billion
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#65
the reason we don't have more E85 pumps is that Oil industry has been fighting it like crazy
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#75
cost of Brazil's ethanol subsidy is TRIVIAL compared to STAGGERING costs of Global Warming
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#64
note I did NOT say NG was not viable. Just that converting it to methanol would be a better way to
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#73
Doesns't matter if it doesn't scare you. You have to have a credible business plan toconvince a bank
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#94
Gas(avg all grades): $3.63. Ethanol retail (avg): $2.95.. corn down 30% ovr 1 yr (see links)
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#47
Ethanol price 20% less than gasoline. E85 actually gets about 20% less mpg than gas powered car as
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#53
even so (no links again) given the real price of gas is $4.60 - $5.60 ethanol is far cheaper.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#59
Honda sells two FFVs in BRazil only, that achieve comparable power, torque and mpg as gasoline cars.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#60
Ethanol brings down the price of gas ~20% - Merrill Lynch - more than makes up for E85 price LOL
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#76
(Another) Economist (not ML) says RFS saves drivers up to $1.50 per gallon - Biofuels Digest
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#86
some more info on methanol which should be added to ethanol to be blended with gasoline.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#36
I included a link (in OP) to report on the study. You have to look there 4 the details. E85 mostly
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#17
the reason there are so few stations with pumps for E85 is the Oil Industry has lobbied to keep
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#32
If you were working at EPA or Dept of Energy you would be falling over Oil industry lobbyists all
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#41
go to link to see very good articles in BusinessWeek, Consumer Federation of AMerica, & others that
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#77
obtuse arguments ignoring realities of starting a new product or integrated product delivery system
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#81
the operating system on all IBM PCs is written by Microsoft. Actually, Microsoft DOES OWN computers
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#90
the question is not whether microsoft OWNs but did they write the operating systems use on IBM PCs
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#98
regarding muscling independent retailers to not make E85 available is restraint of trade violation
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#82
NG vehicles Methane Emissions raises their CO2e emissions to >2x diesels - PennState
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#99
Water used to make one gallon of Ethanol: 2.7 gal; to make a gallon of gasoline: 97 gallons
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#85
Note that I am advocating adding methanol to ethanol, precisely because we need more fuel
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#96
yeah, I just can't forget the secret Energy Task Force meetings CHeney had with all those...FARMERS!
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#78
NG vehicles Methane Emissions raises their CO2e emissions to >2x diesels - PennState
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#102