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Environment & Energy
In reply to the discussion: Mileage (mpg) Using Ethanol Seen 20% Higher Than EPA Says - Bloomberg [View all]Bill USA
(6,436 posts)7. they improved combustion of ethanol by increazing spark advance which higher octane ethanol or
methanol allows when they are blended with gasoline.
now, once you are getting better mileage with ethanol/methanol - gasoline blend you can compare that to straight gasoline.
EPA and dept of Energy are on record saying that the Heat value of the fuel is all you need to consider in calculating fuel efficiency. That is nonsense. The octane rating is important in internal combustion engines because you are burning the fuel under compression. Higher octane fuel won't pre-ignite as easily so you don't have to use retarded spark timing and you can use higher compression ratios.
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Mileage (mpg) Using Ethanol Seen 20% Higher Than EPA Says - Bloomberg [View all]
Bill USA
Sep 2013
OP
they improved combustion of ethanol by increazing spark advance which higher octane ethanol or
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#7
You are, sadly, misinformed. EPA uses the Heating Value of ethanol compared to gasoline's HV
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#14
I never said one could optimize engines to runon ethanol & double th fuel efficiency of current FFVs
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#21
three MIT scientists designed a DI turbocharged engine with ethanol (DI) that gets 25-30% better mpg
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#22
CORRECTION: Ethanol's Fuel Efficiency (per EPA) is DOUBLED by the Ethanol DI turbocharged engine
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#24
Ethanol's portion of the increase in price of food 9.8% - 15.7%, Energy's portion: 35% - CBO
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#25
thats not the whole picture. octane rating is important cause you burning the fuel under compression
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#8
Yes. Neither is burned with 100% efficiency. Any improvement in either is great!
NYC_SKP
Sep 2013
#9
it's okay to be skeptical. Here is a link to a report on research by Michael Wang, U.S. Argonne
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#19
You can easily adjust spark advance, but not compression ratio. So, you won't get optimal results
leveymg
Sep 2013
#27
it's done by having computer control a turbo-charger. Fuel is monitored for alcohol content which
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#28
Of course, with the same variable boost you can achieve higher MPG running gasoline than alky
leveymg
Sep 2013
#30
a higher octane, higher latent heat fuel (ethanol, methanol) will always enable higher boosts than a
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#33
As a practical matter, gas engines rarely run more than 15 pounds boost (1.0 bar) on the street
leveymg
Sep 2013
#34
your personal attack on me does not make up for your lack of an argument. You are claiming that I
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#72
your personal brand of logic seems to allow you to assert "A" and "not A" simultaneously.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#95
the article refers to a study (link provided) that involved altering the ignition timing of the cars
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#15
the study referred to in the article in OP points out that current FFVs CAN DO MUCH BETTER- IF THE
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#18
this won't happen but what should be done is add methanol to the ethanol for blending with gas. In
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#35
the cost of buiding the infrastructure to distribute it would be enormous. The cars are not cheap.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#39
cost of CNG fueling station $10,000 to $2 million. Which do you think is the commercial application?
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#45
I expect you'll be buying the NG Civic for an additional $10,000?? be my guest.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#48
http://scarcewhales.blogspot.com/2009/10/petropolis-and-brazilian-ethanol.html?m=1
wercal
Sep 2013
#56
the Real cost of oil/gasoline: Over $5.28 a gallon National DEfense Council study
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#58
almost all the of ethanol consumed @ a 10% blend used by all drivers in U.S. in 2012 13.2 billion
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#65
the reason we don't have more E85 pumps is that Oil industry has been fighting it like crazy
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#75
cost of Brazil's ethanol subsidy is TRIVIAL compared to STAGGERING costs of Global Warming
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#64
note I did NOT say NG was not viable. Just that converting it to methanol would be a better way to
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#73
Doesns't matter if it doesn't scare you. You have to have a credible business plan toconvince a bank
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#94
Gas(avg all grades): $3.63. Ethanol retail (avg): $2.95.. corn down 30% ovr 1 yr (see links)
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#47
Ethanol price 20% less than gasoline. E85 actually gets about 20% less mpg than gas powered car as
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#53
even so (no links again) given the real price of gas is $4.60 - $5.60 ethanol is far cheaper.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#59
Honda sells two FFVs in BRazil only, that achieve comparable power, torque and mpg as gasoline cars.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#60
Ethanol brings down the price of gas ~20% - Merrill Lynch - more than makes up for E85 price LOL
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#76
(Another) Economist (not ML) says RFS saves drivers up to $1.50 per gallon - Biofuels Digest
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#86
some more info on methanol which should be added to ethanol to be blended with gasoline.
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#36
I included a link (in OP) to report on the study. You have to look there 4 the details. E85 mostly
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#17
the reason there are so few stations with pumps for E85 is the Oil Industry has lobbied to keep
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#32
If you were working at EPA or Dept of Energy you would be falling over Oil industry lobbyists all
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#41
go to link to see very good articles in BusinessWeek, Consumer Federation of AMerica, & others that
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#77
obtuse arguments ignoring realities of starting a new product or integrated product delivery system
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#81
the operating system on all IBM PCs is written by Microsoft. Actually, Microsoft DOES OWN computers
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#90
the question is not whether microsoft OWNs but did they write the operating systems use on IBM PCs
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#98
regarding muscling independent retailers to not make E85 available is restraint of trade violation
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#82
NG vehicles Methane Emissions raises their CO2e emissions to >2x diesels - PennState
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#99
Water used to make one gallon of Ethanol: 2.7 gal; to make a gallon of gasoline: 97 gallons
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#85
Note that I am advocating adding methanol to ethanol, precisely because we need more fuel
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#96
yeah, I just can't forget the secret Energy Task Force meetings CHeney had with all those...FARMERS!
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#78
NG vehicles Methane Emissions raises their CO2e emissions to >2x diesels - PennState
Bill USA
Sep 2013
#102