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NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
45. Can you document that cheaper oil doesn't result in more people using oil?
Wed Jan 9, 2013, 06:13 PM
Jan 2013

The relationship between the price of oil and demand is pretty clear (though, oil being a required fuel we now depend on, it will never operate strictly according to theoretical graphs):

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UmRTuUVy8ys/T5fr8J0QgCI/AAAAAAAACq4/nPPVitvqHbQ/s1600/Screen+shot+2012-04-25+at+8.17.38+AM.png

Jevons: a 19th Century Zeno [View all] OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 OP
Jevons was making an observation about human psychology, not math or physics phantom power Jan 2013 #1
Actually, Jevons said nothing of the sort. OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #3
What is your interpretation of this: phantom power Jan 2013 #7
Wait a second… OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #8
I don't think there's any implied statement about price of resources going down... phantom power Jan 2013 #12
Re: price of resources going down OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #14
I think there are two kinds of answer to that... phantom power Jan 2013 #20
This is pseduo-science nuttiness NoOneMan Jan 2013 #2
I agree OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #4
Is the fiscal multiplier nutty? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #6
The fiscal multiplier is real, but overstated in this case OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #9
Overstated? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #10
Jevons misstated reality OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #13
Start a thread about it then NoOneMan Jan 2013 #15
I did start a thread OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #19
One that is about discrete math, economic multipliers and now innovation NoOneMan Jan 2013 #21
As I said OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #24
There is no extra money in Planck's wallet. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2013 #5
Planck length only addresses matter, not distance wtmusic Jan 2013 #79
The additional money comes from resource extraction and manufacturing GliderGuider Jan 2013 #11
Is that resource exraction the result of more efficiency? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #17
Money made available as a result of efficiency doesn't need to be created by fiat. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #26
The $100 worth of energy I “saved” would have come from resource extraction OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #43
No, actually I'm now saying this: GliderGuider Jan 2013 #57
Indeed, Jevons was wrong OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #61
Conversely though... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #65
I will agree that improving efficiency does not correlate well with a society using less energy OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #67
I think there is something you might be missing NoOneMan Jan 2013 #68
You merely have a hunch OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #72
The evidence is what Jevons pointed to muriel_volestrangler Jan 2013 #97
Jevon's Paradox was thought of in a much less complex economy in my opinion NoOneMan Jan 2013 #63
Yes - fewer energy sources, fewer manufactured goods, greater transportation costs, GliderGuider Jan 2013 #69
Sure, thereby creating the perfect Red Herring NoOneMan Jan 2013 #70
The additional money comes from improved efficiency Nederland Jan 2013 #16
You’ll have to simply that for me. OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #18
Its not just about YOU NoOneMan Jan 2013 #22
“A better example would be people simply switching to a lower wattage traditional bulb…” OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #25
The immediate result would be less consumption of coal based energy NoOneMan Jan 2013 #28
What-the-what!? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #34
Have you heard of the concept called "time"? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #38
Can you document this occurring OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #39
Household appliances are a decent example NoOneMan Jan 2013 #44
No appliances aren’t a good example of Jevons’ Paradox OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #46
Those studies were done in the early 80s regarding efficiency standards implemented in late 70s NoOneMan Jan 2013 #51
I'm looking for documentation OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #52
"Economic Implications of Mandated Efficiency Standards for Household Appliances." NoOneMan Jan 2013 #55
Anything written in this century? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #58
Straw man. What you describe is not Jevon's paradox. Speck Tater Jan 2013 #23
Why do more efficient cars mean more people will buy them? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #27
It means lower initial demand for gas, making more people able to buy gas NoOneMan Jan 2013 #29
Except, it doesn’t work that way OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #32
It does work that way NoOneMan Jan 2013 #35
(see above) OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #37
Your question is faulty NoOneMan Jan 2013 #40
Can you document this? (i.e. that more efficient cars lead to more consumption.) OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #41
Can you document that cheaper oil doesn't result in more people using oil? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #45
How about this? OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #47
The relationship between its price and its use is undeniable NoOneMan Jan 2013 #49
Wait a second… OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #56
Get back to Jevon's? I thought this thread was about discrete math NoOneMan Jan 2013 #60
Once again, back to Jevons please OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #64
You can't demand we talk about Jevon's without substantiating your premises NoOneMan Jan 2013 #66
That's isn't what I asked NoOneMan Jan 2013 #53
Back to Jevons again OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #59
As I just replied... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #62
The specific Jevons-style rebound is probably less significant than general growth GliderGuider Jan 2013 #30
In any case, it isn't a strict "rule" but an explanation of observed market behavior NoOneMan Jan 2013 #31
So, your answer is that it really isn’t Jevons’ Paradox at work OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #33
My answer is that Jevon's Paradox doesn't "work". NoOneMan Jan 2013 #36
On David Owen and William Jevons OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #42
Why do I care about that article? NoOneMan Jan 2013 #48
You may not care about that article OKIsItJustMe Jan 2013 #50
Nothing about your thread here is an appeal to logic to be honest NoOneMan Jan 2013 #54
Wow...the fatalists struck gold with this one. wtmusic Jan 2013 #71
I don't think any of that is the point NoOneMan Jan 2013 #73
Civilization is producing more efficiently than it ever has in human history wtmusic Jan 2013 #77
Its a simple concept here NoOneMan Jan 2013 #80
Simple, but wrong. wtmusic Jan 2013 #81
The problem is assumption 2 mainly NoOneMan Jan 2013 #82
Good questions, but if you're going to support your hypothesis wtmusic Jan 2013 #84
Here is a quick answer.... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #86
Help me here...your source says you're wrong. wtmusic Jan 2013 #87
I said alter the assumption NoOneMan Jan 2013 #88
Why would you do that when solar produces 1% of US energy? wtmusic Jan 2013 #89
Because near 90% of electricity where I live is renewable NoOneMan Jan 2013 #92
Fine, but what's relevant to you is not close to being relevant to society as a whole wtmusic Jan 2013 #94
Presuming that society on a whole will not lower the carbon-intensity of their energy NoOneMan Jan 2013 #96
Trim quotes much? GliderGuider Jan 2013 #83
Both versions are meaningless and unsupportable wtmusic Jan 2013 #85
In general, we are going about pretending we don't even have to think about these matters NoOneMan Jan 2013 #90
My new term of the week is "motivated reasoning" GliderGuider Jan 2013 #93
Mine is "motivated density" wtmusic Jan 2013 #95
Not so. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #91
BTW, have you ever conversely thought.... NoOneMan Jan 2013 #74
There is no limit to human wants and desires. GliderGuider Jan 2013 #75
Especially humans with the desire to make others' lives better wtmusic Jan 2013 #78
With transglobal corporate monsters ruling all, Zeno's paradox certainly applies to you and me... Peace Patriot Jan 2013 #76
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