HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Gender & Orientation » Men's Group (Group) » No Job? No Date for You! » Reply #3
In the discussion thread: No Job? No Date for You! [View all]

Response to Bonobo (Reply #2)

Wed Sep 19, 2012, 03:46 AM

3. Of course I agree with that.


Except I have a problem calling that "objectification." Feminists boards are pissed at me about that. I don't think objectification correctly describes the process, nor does it encompass all the psychological processes that have been assign to it. It's a defective term.

I quibble with the notion that it's their evolutionary roles that they're demanding to be freed from. What I see is they don't acknowledge evolutionary forces because they don't trust that male interests haven't slanted the data and corrupted the results. They reject sociobiology because its purported determinism is similarly suspect. In other words, I believe the most widespread opinion in feminism is that evolution is correct, but the implications of it, explained to them by male scientists, cannot be trusted. Unfortunately, feminists have no scientific data themselves, and while they wait forever for the "real" data to come in, they inform their beliefs, or bolster them, rather, with social science. That's what I think the widest opinion about evolution might be.

It comes down to fear and paranoia, and these are never emotions conducive to clear intellect.

So where does that leave you discussing the shackles of men's evolutionary roles? It's fruitless to argue about roles in the context of evolution with feminists, because to them the information is suspect. Culture and society, for a large part, do create the environments by which genetically influenced behavior is expressed, and that is what you're talking about with gender expectations. I would try to keep discussions to things which aren't so directly related to sexual selection, especially when there's no good solution except forcing women to accept men they aren't attracted to, or vice versa. That doesn't go anywhere good because modern sexual morality is based on consent.

Sadly, I see that the two sexes have different genetic interests. These interests influence us through our unconscious minds.

It's okay in any respect to point out the absurdities in patriarchal theory and the problems with the term "objectification."

I did read the whole article and I knew that far fewer men demand that their potential partners be wealthy or make a living. I'm saying that if it's wrong at all to have that standard, then it's wrong for anyone to have that standard no matter how the gender demographics break down. There are still enough men demanding that standard that you can take gender out of it and just say "This standard is wrong."

And you'll probably be told in one way or another, "Hey, I didn't make the rules. A partner having wealth and power somehow turns me on." If they think it through rationally, it's more than likely after-the-fact.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 57 replies Author Time Post
Bonobo Sep 2012 OP
caseymoz Sep 2012 #1
Bonobo Sep 2012 #2
LineLineLineReply Of course I agree with that.
caseymoz Sep 2012 #3
lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #7
caseymoz Sep 2012 #12
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #13
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #15
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #16
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #17
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #19
lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #5
Zalatix Sep 2012 #4
lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #6
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #18
Zalatix Sep 2012 #21
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #22
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #8
loli phabay Sep 2012 #9
Bonobo Sep 2012 #10
ElboRuum Sep 2012 #28
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2012 #11
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #14
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #20
Bonobo Sep 2012 #23
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #24
seabeyond Sep 2012 #25
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #27
ElboRuum Sep 2012 #29
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #30
ElboRuum Sep 2012 #31
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #36
ElboRuum Sep 2012 #37
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #38
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #41
ElboRuum Sep 2012 #42
ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2012 #35
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #43
MadrasT Sep 2012 #26
Bonobo Sep 2012 #32
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #33
opiate69 Sep 2012 #34
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #47
Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #55
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #44
Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #50
lumberjack_jeff Sep 2012 #57
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #39
ElboRuum Sep 2012 #40
Shitty Mitty Sep 2012 #45
Bonobo Sep 2012 #46
Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #49
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #51
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #48
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #52
Major Nikon Sep 2012 #53
4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #54
Sen. Walter Sobchak Sep 2012 #56
Please login to view edit histories.