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Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
15. In my previous post, I said that ignorance of history and politics were necessary for libertarians.
Sat Jun 15, 2013, 02:44 PM
Jun 2013

I should have added literature.

I was just speaking with my wife, who has an MA in literature. She reminded me of Dickens, whose Oliver Twist was about the very serious limits of private charity in an apathetic government.

Dickens was an effective destroyer of libertarian "ideals". He made a career of skewering the arrogance and penury of private charity. He didn't let people feel comfortable about their motives for helping the poor, instead shining a light on how most of them were in it to make themselves look better at the expense of people who needed their help. Some of his self-proclaimed do-gooders are the most vicious characters in all of his books.

His real takedown of libertarianism came from putting a human face on the poor and ignored in society. He made the haves of society realize that private charity wasn’t enough to help the less fortunate, it never would be, and they started doing something about it. I don't think we can even begin to estimate his influence in making societies start looking for more realistic solutions to helping the poor.

Upton Sinclair should also be mentioned for making libertarianism look like a fraud by showing how a society with zero regulations on the "free market" was literally killing us and making us sick. Teddy Roosevelt read The Jungle and sent a couple of men to Chicago to see if Sinclair was exaggerating about conditions in the meat packing industry. They reported that, if anything, Sinclair understated things. The Pure Food and Drug Act followed shortly afterwards. (TR had no trouble believing it, since he knew from personal experience, that canned meat supplied to the army was sometimes rotten in the can!)

That was pure comedy! Quixote1818 Jun 2013 #1
loved it..ty ElsewheresDaughter Jun 2013 #2
I just love Sam! choie Jun 2013 #3
DURec for Sam Seder. bvar22 Jun 2013 #4
Great video. Ben seems to be working at reinventing the wheel without knowing how. Link great. Thnx. freshwest Jun 2013 #5
Libertarians always dig themselves into very deep holes when discussing their general philosophy cpwm17 Jun 2013 #6
Mental masturbation. Classic. railsback Jun 2013 #7
I've yet to meet a really intelligent Libertarian dorkzilla Jun 2013 #8
There is this old joke Half-Century Man Jun 2013 #9
I've come very close to having that type of ridiculous conversation Marie Marie Jun 2013 #10
Thanks! ScottLand Jun 2013 #11
Sam mud stomped his ass... jjewell Jun 2013 #12
I don't know about you... bpollen Jun 2013 #13
Ignorance of history, politics, economics and the real world is necessary to be a libertarian Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #14
In my previous post, I said that ignorance of history and politics were necessary for libertarians. Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #15
My selfish next-door neighbor seems to have become a libertarian due to zoning laws cpwm17 Jun 2013 #18
worth watching, absolutely suzanner Jun 2013 #16
"The perfect liberty they seek is the liberty of making slaves of other people." -- Abraham Lincoln Galraedia Jun 2013 #17
Libertarians... Repbulican Stoners. stlsaxman Jun 2013 #19
If it's mental masturbation, the caller is not very well endowed! ScottLand Jun 2013 #20
I get a similar vibe from religious people trying to convert me booley Jun 2013 #21
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Video & Multimedia»Watch Sam Seder Stomp Sil...»Reply #15