Surprise, Surprise, Surprise - Will The Gun Violence Fallacies Never End (Reply #120)

In the discussion thread: Pic Of The Moment: So Much For Self Defense [View all]

Response to EarlG (Original post)

Mon Apr 22, 2013, 08:27 PM

cantbeserious (13,039 posts)

120. Surprise, Surprise, Surprise - Will The Gun Violence Fallacies Never End

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153 replies	Author	Time	Post
Pic Of The Moment: So Much For Self Defense [View all]	EarlG	Apr 2013	OP
Good find. There are a lot of gun cultists who consider Zimmerman commited a "justified" homicide.	Hoyt	Apr 2013	#1
Now with the "Shoot First Ask Questions Later" - I mean, "Stand Your Ground" laws	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#14
Bingo. That is exactly what AtheistCrusader is doing in this thread.	SunSeeker	Apr 2013	#27
Except of course	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#87
Shoot first ask questions later? You have got to be kidding me.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#58
Defending the NRA position is unthinkable. Are you a Zimmerman fan? "No one is going to shoot	firenewt	Apr 2013	#70
Yes, I believe it is.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#91
Nope...	Wednesdays	Apr 2013	#146
Yeah, I know it's a joke, but it's what you gun-fanatics support.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#90
No, it's not what I support.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#93
Wow. You had all those videos on the ready! Good for you!	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#106
Utterly wrong. You just don't understand the law.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#127
Zimmerman's attorneys	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#134
Thank you.	ctsnowman	Apr 2013	#141
Utterly Wrong, Again.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#148
Cherry-picking information to support your fetish with guns doesn't help you.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#149
LOL. Massad Ayoob.	DanTex	Apr 2013	#150
Excellent, well-reasoned response.	appal_jack	Apr 2013	#140
Legally, it might appear well-reasoned, but in practice, it's not.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#144
How many gun owners can afford 6 figures in legal fees?	Progressive dog	Apr 2013	#100
But suicides don't count	BainsBane	Apr 2013	#2
Some should. The "spur-of-the-moment" action made simple by use of gun.	Scuba	Apr 2013	#26
Wait ... you're advocating FOR suicide?	baldguy	Apr 2013	#29
I've long felt I should have the right to end my own life if I choose to do so.	Scuba	Apr 2013	#38
Euthanasia robs Big Pharma and Big ProfitCare of vital profits.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#133
when someone hangs himself, do you blame the rope? (end)	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#59
That page of the NRA handbook must be almost worn out by now!	Walk away	Apr 2013	#76
I'm not one of those people	BainsBane	Apr 2013	#88
No, because the rope gave them time to rethink their suicide.	jeff47	Apr 2013	#131
Having a gun in the home increases your chance of a gun death many times over.	SunSeeker	Apr 2013	#3
But, but	billh58	Apr 2013	#4
Defensive gun uses	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#9
And there are actually	billh58	Apr 2013	#10
That one	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#15
It's amazing how	billh58	Apr 2013	#18
They don't care because they get paid	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#24
Bill....the numbers are different because the 2 studies use different methodology.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#48
The OP is about	billh58	Apr 2013	#49
Mischaracterize much?	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#104
Source? nt	Tommy_Carcetti	Apr 2013	#32
here you go.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#60
Says an NRA 'study'.	louis-t	Apr 2013	#152
No, it's called extrapolation. It's used in every poll.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#153
Pretty amazing infographic there, EarlG. nt	Poll_Blind	Apr 2013	#5
Guns don't kill people,	Jamaal510	Apr 2013	#6
US DoJ shows the vast majority of lawful defensive gun uses do not involve fatalities.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#7
From the report cited in another reply. I guess we can all cite stats as needed.	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#12
Uh huh. What was your point?	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#19
My point is that the number used in the OP is wildly low and the Kleck study wildly high. The	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#37
You are comparing	billh58	Apr 2013	#43
Not exactly.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#66
Yeah, I get it.	billh58	Apr 2013	#72
Actually, including all sets of numbers, I suspect the cost would roll AGAINST the use of firearms.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#81
Absolutely ... well stated.	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#85
I'm not buying the lethal use of force metric as the only one that qualifies. That's not being	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#84
By that little twist of	billh58	Apr 2013	#89
I think the OP is using an extremely strict metric in making his point. In the interest of fairness	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#92
That is your opinion	billh58	Apr 2013	#96
Not equal.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#102
I view it (at a minmum) as 108k that did not suffer an attack on their person or worse, death.	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#107
I opt on the side of owning firearms, but expecting reasonable regulation of that ownership.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#112
Well stated. My views exactly.	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#116
If I brandish a shotgun at an armed intruder and stop them from assaulting my family, that is	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#98
And again we disagree.	billh58	Apr 2013	#103
How on God's green planet do you come to the conclusion that I support the unrestricted	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#105
It appears that I am	billh58	Apr 2013	#108
I'll reserve judgement on your intent here. But suffice it to say that you have misrepresented my	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#114
WHY is the OP comparing the two groups of gun deaths?	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#113
Ah, agreed.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#62
Yes, I also agree with your assessment.	SlimJimmy	Apr 2013	#82
Attempting to compile "all lawful DGUs" would be impossible.	IveWornAHundredPants	Apr 2013	#122
Fair point.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#143
The Kleck study is not absurd.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#65
Depending on state law.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#68
Which states?	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#94
Not all states have statutes regarding this.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#97
Warning shots are a very good way to get yourself killed.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2013	#117
In florida, a warning shot = a 20 year mandatory minimum felony.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#118
Warning shots are a good way to get someone else killed.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#129
You are right.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2013	#132
Gunners love to cherry pick that 1997 survey, without disclosing the report's conclusion	SunSeeker	Apr 2013	#13
Agreed, the reporting tallies are not accurate.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#16
And if you extrapolate that out....	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#51
"It was designed to make it difficult to fabricate a story." What bullshit.	SunSeeker	Apr 2013	#80
Kleck explains this himself.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#136
And this is why Kleck has no credibility.	SunSeeker	Apr 2013	#145
Not Americans	FreeEmily	Apr 2013	#20
Per capita violent assault comparisons to other G20 nations are not... favorable to us.	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#23
Wrong. The US has lower rape and assault rates than many gun-free countries.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#55
Now there's a fine	billh58	Apr 2013	#63
No, Bill....	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#71
Do you report the income you receive from	billh58	Apr 2013	#74
The NRA? I'm not even a member.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#95
Ahh...	bobclark86	Apr 2013	#111
True.	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#22
Yeah, I'd bet the unintentional shootings are far more likely to be fatal than the intential ones.	enki23	Apr 2013	#119
Shootings classified 'unintentional' are often	AtheistCrusader	Apr 2013	#142
So WILDLY Wrong it's laughable.	Alva Goldbook	Apr 2013	#8
It is the figures you cite that are wildly wrong and laughable.	SunSeeker	Apr 2013	#21
That paper you cite was published 16 years ago and has been challenged.	Dan Ken	Apr 2013	#53
Yes, I do know. Did you mean to reply to me or our new gungeoneer (post #8)?	SunSeeker	Apr 2013	#83
See post 13;	thucythucy	Apr 2013	#25
Exactly!	SoapBox	Apr 2013	#11
Good joke on Steph this morning.	Cleita	Apr 2013	#17
Hah! She's always so sharp! Love the woman. eom	BlueCaliDem	Apr 2013	#28
Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011	DeYanko	Apr 2013	#30
And yet another	billh58	Apr 2013	#39
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Apr 2013	#31
Welcome to DU.	Tommy_Carcetti	Apr 2013	#33
Lots of new very pro gun people popping up today.	lark	Apr 2013	#44
MIRT found and	billh58	Apr 2013	#77
Hoping so	lark	Apr 2013	#147
You're so compassionate...you must be a conservative.	cyberswede	Apr 2013	#36
They're coming out of the woodwork	billh58	Apr 2013	#42
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Apr 2013	#52
...	cyberswede	Apr 2013	#56
I am very busy missing the show what happened???	DainBramaged	Apr 2013	#75
A sad little gun troll had to go bye bye	cyberswede	Apr 2013	#79
Thanks, another bug sprayed	DainBramaged	Apr 2013	#86
Bullshit	DainBramaged	Apr 2013	#41
Your last sentence is something that some of us want to consider, but, as there SHOULD be in any	patrice	Apr 2013	#73
But, but, but, that's because everybody isn't packing heat!	catbyte	Apr 2013	#34
The thing I really DON'T like about this picture,	Amimnoch	Apr 2013	#35
Your proposals would allow any non-crazy person the right to armed	Flatulo	Apr 2013	#54
Que the NRA talking points in 3-2-1.......	DainBramaged	Apr 2013	#40
Nailed. it. That post was a bullshit set-up, as in volleyball. nt	patrice	Apr 2013	#78
The gunners flock to these threads like a moth to flame	neverforget	Apr 2013	#101
Gun manufacturers profit from each and every case...	radhika	Apr 2013	#45
sensible gun control would still have allowed	samsingh	Apr 2013	#46
The 203 number is a low number.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2013	#50
Let's look at those.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2013	#47
Thanks for all of the	billh58	Apr 2013	#57
Calling something a talking point is not a rebuttal.	GreenStormCloud	Apr 2013	#61
Your arguments have been answered with logic many times here at DU	Dan Ken	Apr 2013	#67
Yep, got me pegged	billh58	Apr 2013	#69
I could never rebut your statement that you are a cow.	Pholus	Apr 2013	#99
Yes. And 390k from smoking, 49k from second hand smoke alone - that one always gets me.	geckosfeet	Apr 2013	#115
You might feel safer still if you duct tape pillows to all the sharp corners of your furniture.	IveWornAHundredPants	Apr 2013	#121
K&R!	TeamPooka	Apr 2013	#64
Thank you...	bobclark86	Apr 2013	#109
Thanks, Earl. Great stats.	toby jo	Apr 2013	#110
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise - Will The Gun Violence Fallacies Never End	cantbeserious	Apr 2013	#120
So is DU now "Officially" Anti-Gun?	MicaelS	Apr 2013	#123
Just that gun prescence has led to more death than protection.	fascisthunter	Apr 2013	#126
Sounds like a name of a headbangers band...	Ellipsis	Apr 2013	#124
You do realize this isn't a point in your favor.	Yukari Yakumo	Apr 2013	#125
There are some crazy people who think that ALL the gun-related deaths are bad!	IveWornAHundredPants	Apr 2013	#128
Some of us here at DU have used guns in self-defense before	NickB79	Apr 2013	#130
K&R nt	ProudProgressiveNow	Apr 2013	#135
What's more "self defense" than defending yourself against yourself?	Warren DeMontague	Apr 2013	#137
Thanks EarlG! This kind of post sure rings the dinner bell for the gungions.	FailureToCommunicate	Apr 2013	#138
Of those 230 Justifiable Homicides	cleduc	Apr 2013	#139
We just need more guns	liberal N proud	Apr 2013	#151

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