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struggle4progress

(118,273 posts)
15. This is just a stupid game. US free speech law will, with few exceptions, protect anyone who merely
Tue Jun 26, 2012, 08:32 PM
Jun 2012

received and published information. The exceptions typically involve revealing operational aspects of security: for example, exposing the identities of agents. So if Assange merely received and published some documents that didn't expose agents identities, he's probably home free. But US free speech law will not necessarily protect those who work in combination to steal information: so if (say) Assange was helping Manning to crack passwords to access files, his position might be rather different

The first point to be made, therefore, is that it very much matters, under US law, exactly what Assange did or did not do, and the law is usually heavily tilted on behalf of the publisher. We, of course, have no idea what exactly Assange did or did not do, because Assange -- despite all his high-falutin jabber about transparency -- is really a rather secretive fellow

Assange, and his mommy, and his supporters, are all out shrieking that Assange will be seized and, subject to extraordinary rendition, transported to America where he will face torture and death. The reality is that extraordinary rendition and torture have been applied only to the weak and unknown, and that the death penalty never falls in America on people with many friends. There is absolutely no chance that Assange could be subject to extraordinary rendition or tortured, nor is there the slightest chance he could face the death penalty. This fear of extraordinary rendition to the US, followed by torture and execution, is loudly the basis of his opposition to extradition to Sweden and also of his Asylum request to Ecuador: Sweden (we are told) is a spineless vassal of the US

And so the second point to be made is: Assange is something of a poseur. He planned to move the entire Wikileaks to Sweden, and visited the country a few years back with that intention, applying at the time for Swedish residency. His desire to dominate younger women, however, seems to have gotten the better of him, and his remarks at the time show his perspective clearly enough: "I may be a chauvinist pig of some sort but I am no rapist, and only a distorted version of sexual politics could attempt to turn me into one," he told us, and he further complained "Sweden is the Saudi Arabia of feminism. I fell into a hornets' nest of revolutionary feminism!" Whatever the actual facts of his Swedish visit, we do not really hear from Assange any concern for the women involved in his Swedish affairs. Perhaps this is unsurprising, given that he has bragged in the past of leaving a trail of illegitimate baby-Assanges in his wake, four apparently being known in Australia alone

And a third point is also made here clearly: Assange shows a certain indifference to others. Bradley Manning has not and will not receive any significant help from Assange. Assange also seems to have cheerfully screwed over the folk who generously guaranteed his bail. As the evidence on the personal side mounts up, it becomes much easier to believe than Assange has also been callously indifferent to the fates of the lower-level leakers whose work has made Assange himself famous -- a charge now repeatedly made by various professional human-rights workers familiar with various specific cases handled by Wikileaks

The hypocritical noises made by Assange and his supporters become especially tiresome when one begins to understand how these noises prevent one from obtaining an accurate picture of the state of affairs. It will actually be more difficult to extradite Assange from Sweden to the US, than to extradite Assange from the UK to the US, not only because EU extradition law imposes limits on such successive extraditions, but also because the UK has an extradition treaty with the US that is much more favorable to the US than Sweden's bilateral extradition treaty is. Moreover, UK law would have regarded Assange's Wikileaks releases as clearly and unquestionably criminal, if the released material had involved UK military or diplomatic documents, rather than US military or diplomatic documents -- in a way that US law cannot possibly regard the release itself as criminal -- so there is a certain crudity in Assange's sojourn in the UK, whining of the dangers he faces from the US

I have no idea whether Assange is guilty of sexual assault in Sweden or guilty of crimes related to classified information in the US. The hurdle for proof, in either matter, would seem to be rather substantial, but both the Swedish and American justice systems would be perfectly capable of producing fair trials, if either matter ever resulted in charges and trial. The whining noise of Assange and his followers, however, is wearing thin

Are Assange's fears justified? [View all] EFerrari Jun 2012 OP
I don't know, but I entirely understand his concerns. Lionessa Jun 2012 #1
His extradition to Sweden is based solely on being wanted for questioning dipsydoodle Jun 2012 #2
The government claims the right to hold prisoners indefinitely without charge EFerrari Jun 2012 #5
Not unless the governmental policy is to protect war criminals and go after whistle-blowers. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #3
Well done. nt bemildred Jun 2012 #8
Note to Assange: When it is Officially Denied, Consider it True solarman350 Jun 2012 #4
Does that mean that if its 'officially acknowledged' that its false? n/t Bodhi BloodWave Jun 2012 #9
Here's where this conspiracy theory falls down: jeff47 Jun 2012 #6
They just want to keep him penned up. bemildred Jun 2012 #7
Now THAT makes sense. But it's caused by Assange's actions, not a US conspiracy. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2012 #11
Assange caused the US to want to keep him penned up? bemildred Jun 2012 #13
They dislike that he published classified. jeff47 Jun 2012 #17
So that's a "no"? nt bemildred Jun 2012 #21
I really don't see how you got "no" out of that. jeff47 Jun 2012 #22
I don't see any causation in that. bemildred Jun 2012 #23
Public records aren't stamped SECRET. jeff47 Jun 2012 #24
All government records are public records. bemildred Jun 2012 #25
Now that's a novel theory. I bet none of the governments above you hold it. struggle4progress Jun 2012 #26
What's that you say? bemildred Jun 2012 #27
No. Unless you think the government should publish your address and social security number. jeff47 Jun 2012 #28
Those are public. Anybody can get them. Are you nuts? nt bemildred Jun 2012 #29
I can get your social security number without your permission? jeff47 Jun 2012 #30
Well, all right then, you can redact the SSNs. nt bemildred Jun 2012 #33
Not evil shadowy forces, jeff. Obama's Department of Justice. EFerrari Jun 2012 #10
Did you miss the part where this was not new and not prosecutable? (nt) jeff47 Jun 2012 #12
No. Did you miss the part where this Justice Department signed off on EFerrari Jun 2012 #14
Did you miss the part where those aren't illegal? jeff47 Jun 2012 #16
I'm talking about human rights abuses and your argument is that they're legal? EFerrari Jun 2012 #18
The US is waiting until it suits them, and here are the numbers, Mr Legal Expert reorg Jun 2012 #20
This is just a stupid game. US free speech law will, with few exceptions, protect anyone who merely struggle4progress Jun 2012 #15
"US free speech law will, with few exceptions, protect anyone who merely received & published info." EFerrari Jun 2012 #19
kr Solly Mack Jun 2012 #31
TRUTH, LEADERSHIP, MORALS AND VALUES AND AMERICA clang1 Jun 2012 #32
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