Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

rustbeltvoice

(430 posts)
21. ¡Viva el Papa!
Tue Dec 17, 2013, 12:07 PM
Dec 2013

¡Viva el Papa! As i said in another thread, "Burke pegged the meter"

In some analog meters, there is a needle behind glass; to the left is '0', and the gradations continued to the right, at the end of the scale there is a measurable limit value. At times, the input could be so strong that the meter is destroyed. Raymond Burke pegged the meter in several categories. Politically, he was very active in promoting the Republican Party and attacking the Democratic Party. This went outside any pastoral activity. Within the church, he was an "Americaniser", by this i mean, he wanted to control the diocese as a corporate capitalist and tyrant. The bishop was a Leviathan. Burke was an enemy to the nationality parishes, they were only a source of income; only the bishop's opinion mattered in all matters. This country has many such bishops, Burke was the most flamboyant in the display and presentation of his person. He dressed himself in the most extreme, and extravagant regalia. How could that alone not suggest how ill suited he is to be a priest?

Pope Francis is addressing an internal problem of the church in this country. There is an extreme imbalance between the ordinary (the presiding bishop) and the People of God. Here in Cleveland, we have an horrible bishop in this regard. Richard Lennon has caused much disharmony, and ill feeling. His chief endeavor was the reduction of parishes in a cold, calculated, vicious way. People are quite parochial, they can not see much outside of their parish. And there is the great problem of church governance, which the local press would never allow to be discussed, and few parishioners would speak on.

Burke was such an extremist. With his removal from this curial position, such individuals such as himself, and Lennon, and other tyrants will not become bishops. The problem is these individuals. They act as pharoa of old, they consider themselves the only Catholic in the diocese.

So a basic question of polity is what constitutes the church in an area, what is the unit? The diocese (a political sub geographic borrowed from the Roman empire), or the parish (constituted by Jesus, when he speaks of "two or three gathered together in my name").

The average Catholic only relates to his parish. The sacramental, and communal life is done within the parish. He has little interest or concern of another parish. So the parishes are not in the practice of joining together to challenge a power (and money) grabbing bishop.

We, in Cleveland and Akron, successfully appealed to Rome (and Rome with a stacked curia, not very receptive to parishioners) and had eleven of eleven appeals against Bishop Lennon's non-canonical suppressions upheld. Lennon was even too much for the church structure to bear. We are still stuck with him, but he has little respect here, and in Rome.

With this humbling of Burke, and his loss of influence, future supreme jerks may not be inflicted upon people. These incidents are lessons for the learning.

¡Viva el Papa!

YES!!!!!!! nt antigop Dec 2013 #1
Burke is a homophobe warrant46 Dec 2013 #8
More likely he's far, far in the closet & projecting self-hate he learned ... Myrina Dec 2013 #67
His reign has been characterized by hateful words and deeds warrant46 Dec 2013 #68
you took the words right out of my mouth : ) MBS Dec 2013 #93
buh-bye! Borchkins Dec 2013 #2
Cue the Anti-Pope crowd in 3...2... Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #3
The American right wing church includes Scalia, Thomas and Alito. loudsue Dec 2013 #66
There are no doubt a few exploding SCOTUS heads at the moment Hekate Dec 2013 #79
Opus Die and the Jesuits have NEVER liked each other. happyslug Dec 2013 #89
Wow. I am so encouraged by this Pope's priorities. Laurian Dec 2013 #4
I completely agree! nt rivegauche Dec 2013 #39
Me too n/t spiderpig Dec 2013 #90
so long and thanks for all the fish allan01 Dec 2013 #5
+1 AllyCat Dec 2013 #10
Yes, please! Dolan next! mountain grammy Dec 2013 #6
Yes! (From your mouth to the pope's ear...) deurbano Dec 2013 #55
San Francisco's Cordileone is no prize either. KamaAina Dec 2013 #64
I know little about Dolan, but every time I see him, he creeps me out. Squinch Dec 2013 #73
This Pope is stirring it up in a big way. PearliePoo2 Dec 2013 #7
No doubt! loyalsister Dec 2013 #19
burke is still head of the apostolic signatura, so not overly impressed. niyad Dec 2013 #9
Out with the haters! Clean up the church! n/t RKP5637 Dec 2013 #11
"Burke retains his position as the head of the Vatican high court, the Apostolic Signatura." Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #12
One step at a time. Oh please, let's have a tiny bit of patience mountain grammy Dec 2013 #17
He is retained as second authority to the Pope, not 'dumped'. Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #20
What's the saying? Keep your enemies closer. n/t Bonhomme Richard Dec 2013 #23
I can understand your rage, for reasons I will not give you an "answer in detail" mountain grammy Dec 2013 #40
........ daleanime Dec 2013 #58
You got personal first and also refused to answer questions asked of you, dismissed all I said Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #63
Ok, against my better judgement, I'll respond mountain grammy Dec 2013 #88
Serious broken record. Perhaps we should have just kept the former Pope Ratzo Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #47
We don't have any say at all. Warren Stupidity Dec 2013 #75
Yep. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #26
You are wrong on at least one thing Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #84
Rush will be INCENSED! durablend Dec 2013 #13
Now he did it!! Beacool Dec 2013 #14
Nice shot across the bow there Francis! DeSwiss Dec 2013 #15
I know the critics on this board aren't going to be impressed Le Taz Hot Dec 2013 #16
Well, yeah. Rozlee Dec 2013 #30
I'm with you! Plucketeer Dec 2013 #32
And he's doubling down on his attack on trickle-down Saviolo Dec 2013 #18
¡Viva el Papa! rustbeltvoice Dec 2013 #21
Welcome to DU, rustbeltvoice! calimary Dec 2013 #56
Gaudete-Rejoice rustbeltvoice Dec 2013 #59
Thanks HurricaneWarning Dec 2013 #72
You know, rustbeltvoice, I'd heard about "Cardinal Bling" but - pardon the pun - calimary Dec 2013 #92
Welcome to DU, rustbeltvoice Hekate Dec 2013 #80
I am speechless. Burke was the final straw for me when he........ Bonhomme Richard Dec 2013 #22
+1. closeupready Dec 2013 #49
Pope Francis is showing some political savvy. bluedigger Dec 2013 #24
yet again, this pope ain't kiddin' around eShirl Dec 2013 #25
Burke is dumped from what, exactly? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #27
from the Congregation for Bishops rustbeltvoice Dec 2013 #29
But he's still the head of the Vatican's high court. Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #31
What's that old axiom about actions speaking LOUDER than words? Plucketeer Dec 2013 #35
That's what you're going with? Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #42
The point is he wast fired for being anti-gay and abortion. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #43
Yes, Burke is still head of the highest court of appeals Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #86
Burke has lost the ability to choose the new Bishops and Cardinals for the US rpannier Dec 2013 #78
I wonder what hard right elements in the Church will do? hopefully, nothing. This is the first lostincalifornia Dec 2013 #28
Cardinal Raymond Burke will soon be on Fox news crying. lol SummerSnow Dec 2013 #33
Ok. So help me out here. Burke "retains" his position but he will no longer serve office? 2banon Dec 2013 #34
C'mon Plucketeer Dec 2013 #37
So then he wasn't actually "dumped" after all. 2banon Dec 2013 #50
I'm sorry Plucketeer Dec 2013 #70
sounds like a different job like Congressmen who sit on more than one committee yurbud Dec 2013 #48
I see, thanks. eom 2banon Dec 2013 #51
Soo... Francis would have... fired himself, if he'd been Pope 6 years ago? AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #36
What an odd response for an atheist Android3.14 Dec 2013 #44
The TPM article kinda sideways infers that to be the case. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #54
Yup. Android3.14 Dec 2013 #83
Getting back to the basics HockeyMom Dec 2013 #38
Was it because of his opposition to abortion and gays? Because the Pope's position is the same. cleanhippie Dec 2013 #41
One gets the sense the Pope wants to change the tone, the emphasis. reformist2 Dec 2013 #46
Considering that the Popes views on abjection and gays is exactly the same cleanhippie Dec 2013 #65
A comment at the TPM link: PearliePoo2 Dec 2013 #45
I hate to be a downer DonCoquixote Dec 2013 #52
Pope Francis strikes again. I really like this pope. n/t pa28 Dec 2013 #53
Ok, this atheist ex-Catholic is starting to warm to this pope Kelvin Mace Dec 2013 #57
Burke should be defrocked. The Stranger Dec 2013 #60
I have been critical of the Pope's comments, MsPithy Dec 2013 #61
He's taking steps in the right direction sandyshoes17 Dec 2013 #62
Does anyone here actually believe that Burke was not retained because skepticscott Dec 2013 #69
Don't expect logic on this subject theHandpuppet Dec 2013 #82
I don't skepticscott Dec 2013 #87
Look at it this way... theHandpuppet Dec 2013 #91
Good. Cha Dec 2013 #71
Wow, that's quite big of him chungking34 Dec 2013 #74
That guy sucks! Gore1FL Dec 2013 #76
Tobin in RI is simliar anasv Dec 2013 #95
I wish Obama would fire some of his cabinet members, Arne Duncan especially. liberal_at_heart Dec 2013 #77
Burke is just an example mdbl Dec 2013 #81
Of all the things, the papal lovefest on DU is the strangest Puzzledtraveller Dec 2013 #85
Can Donohue be next? Orsino Dec 2013 #94
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Francis Dumps U.S. Cardin...»Reply #21