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WilmywoodNCparalegal

(2,654 posts)
85. You are wrong on a few counts
Wed Nov 21, 2012, 02:42 PM
Nov 2012

First off, getting a green card is not a one-day deal. Moreover, the rules for permanent residence as E-1 visa holders are very different. It takes several years to obtain a green card based on a visa such as the E. It takes a few steps that are not immediate. While the application is pending, you are still on an E visa and subject to visa rules.

You mention homeschooling - that would be fine and dandy if my mom, who didn't work, had been proficient in English, which she was not. My dad, the one who actually knew some English, had to work during the day, so our only option was a public high school. Again, this is the end of the 80s, no ESL classes in that rural high school, and certainly no help from teachers or fellow students.

I will repeat again and again that I had no choice in the matter, since I had arrived just two weeks prior to starting school, and I had to somehow manage without any help in my native tongue. I managed and did well enough to graduate at 17 and go on to college.

Because the green card process took a while - as it does for everyone who follows the many rules - and thanks to my dad's employer's attorney's bad advice, I turned 21 while the green card applications were pending. At age 21, you are no longer considered part of your family unit. Unless you notify then-INS that someone is about to turn 21, you'll be excluded from the green card application. That's what happened to me. I was then advised to remain in the U.S. as a F-1 (foreign) student until such time as my green card would come (at the time, the wait for those in my priority category was 11 years). All through this time, I had to hope that my F-1 status would not be rescinded each time I requested it. I was denied the opportunity to attend law school because the quota at the law school that admitted me (and didn't cost an arm and a leg) for foreign students had been met.

At one point, my ability to secure further extensions of the F-1 visa was denied. For two years, I was an 'overstay' - so I was legally an illegal immigrant and subject to deportation. I lived in the shadows myself, despite two bachelor's degrees and two master's degrees, ineligible for any other kind of work visa. Then, I got married and marriage cures overstays (but not entries without inspections), and we all lived happily ever after... So, yes, I had it rough. I know what it means to live in the shadows, but I never asked that the laws be changed to fit my situation. Had I wanted to, I could have gone back to Italy (though not knowing who to live with or how to support myself, but that's another topic), sure. But my ability to see my family would have been drastically curtailed every time I'd try to make it past the immigration officers at the airport, since having close family in the U.S. who are permanent residents or citizens is almost usually a bar to entry.

I've been working in U.S. immigration law for 13 years now. Yes, the U.S. policy on immigration is based on a system that prefers those who possess qualifications or abilities to contribute to society. This is no different than the immigration policies of most other countries, including Canada. In fact, many other countries have far more restrictive immigration policies.

I have yet to deal with a worker coming to the U.S. on a visa who is being paid less than everyone else or receives fewer benefits. On average, in fact, the professionals I work with tend to be paid much higher.

As far as the enforcement of immigration law goes, it is all already on the books. The penalties for knowingly employing an illegal alien are steep and already there. The Obama administration, in fact, has ramped up this aspect enormously. I-9 audits are being performed at record rates and expected to increase. Since 1986, the I-9 form has required employers to confirm that employees have the eligibility to work legally in the U.S. E-Verify is now required in 13 states with more to come. ICE is doing a lot of I-9 audits throughout the nation. Penalties are steep for violations. If employers are paying dearly for employing unauthorized workers, then they will stop hiring them, stifling the supply of jobs. This will, in turn, drive down the need for people to enter without inspection and get the vicious cycle running.

The terminology of 'illegal alien' is something that is used all the time among those who work in this field for a living. I was an illegal alien; I am now a legal alien. That's the proper terminology that has been used for a very long time. Illegal aliens are those who either enter the U.S. without inspection or who overstay their visas. Aliens are those who are not in possession of U.S. citizenship or U.S. national status. Legal aliens are those who have obtained permission by the U.S. government to lawfully be present in the U.S. (note that this only applies to lawful presence, not employment. You can be a tourist and be a legal alien, but you don't have permission to work). I don't feel any less human, by the way.

I'm not blaming these kids - but at the same time I don't think that legal immigrants should be placed at the back of the line either, simply because their parents decided to take a different path instead of entering without inspection. I also think that parents should have the common sense of knowing that their actions (entering a country - any country - illegally) will have consequences on their kids. Parents who live matches and gasoline next to their kids should reasonably expect possible outcomes. Parents who enter the U.S. without inspection should reasonably expect their children will have major problems getting a decent job or going to school.

If we allow anyone to come to the U.S., then what's the point of having immigration laws or employment laws? Is it even feasible to have an open borders policy?

Go Massachusetts...another accomplishment by our recently re-elected President for All People. libdem4life Nov 2012 #1
If they are here illegally then how can they prove they have lived in the state? lalalu Nov 2012 #2
It doesn't matter. If they're here then they ought to be eligble for in-state tuition. rachel1 Nov 2012 #3
Not so fast. The difference in costs between in-state and out-of-state are enormous. riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #6
This is not about winning votes Cal Carpenter Nov 2012 #53
Its the rare, very rare, politician that's altruistic. 99% of them are chasing votes riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #78
His intentions are irrelevent Cal Carpenter Nov 2012 #80
Likely they will have to have graduated from roody Nov 2012 #81
That is not how it works. lalalu Nov 2012 #9
This is NOT true. You do NOT have to "present federal and state tax returns." MADem Nov 2012 #18
You are wrong. lalalu Nov 2012 #21
Nice try. No cigar. That's the "form" that the Governor Patrick CHANGED. MADem Nov 2012 #30
You really get the "Duh" reward yourself. lalalu Nov 2012 #35
Look -- you are just dead wrong on this. Give it up. MADem Nov 2012 #67
WTF?! didact Nov 2012 #62
DUH....how about a MA high school diploma? MADem Nov 2012 #19
It is becoming more obvious lalalu Nov 2012 #24
I've provided a link proving you wrong--from the MA government itself. MADem Nov 2012 #25
LOL, keep posting it. lalalu Nov 2012 #29
What do "parents" have to do with an 18 year old (adult) student? MADem Nov 2012 #34
Wow, so you also do not file income taxes. lalalu Nov 2012 #36
The cut off is 24 for FINANCIAL AID. Stop confusing TUITION with FINANCIAL AID. MADem Nov 2012 #43
This is my final response to you. lalalu Nov 2012 #48
Well, joy in the morning--that has NOTHING TO DO WITH TUITION, and it has MADem Nov 2012 #56
Your conflating tuition rates and financial aid tammywammy Nov 2012 #59
What part of the following do you not understand? lalalu Nov 2012 #60
There you go again! Colleges and universities "allow dependency" for the purposes of FINANCIAL AID MADem Nov 2012 #65
High School diploma and school records will show it treestar Nov 2012 #32
No that is not the law. lalalu Nov 2012 #39
This is not true in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. MADem Nov 2012 #44
If they require parents to prove they lived in MA treestar Nov 2012 #46
This isn't about a break for them. lalalu Nov 2012 #49
No it is only about being a resident treestar Nov 2012 #73
It is about proving residency in order to get in state tuition. lalalu Nov 2012 #77
The parents don't even have to get involved. The student can produce two documents, MADem Nov 2012 #66
Lots of undocumented workers roody Nov 2012 #82
How nice of Massachussetts. Piazza Riforma Nov 2012 #4
I agree with letting them attend - but with out-of-state tuition panAmerican Nov 2012 #5
Not against letting them attend college, Piazza Riforma Nov 2012 #7
It's a nice idea, but there wouldn't be reciprocation in many instances panAmerican Nov 2012 #8
My point isn't about whether another state will grant MA students in state rates. Piazza Riforma Nov 2012 #11
Would you then agree that anyone smoking pot --either medical MJ or recreationally in the states MADem Nov 2012 #15
You must not have attended college or have a child in college. lalalu Nov 2012 #23
You are wrong on EVERY count. Try clicking on the link I provided to you, so you do not MADem Nov 2012 #26
Your own link proves you wrong. lalalu Nov 2012 #27
The unemancipated person is the EXCEPTION, not the rule. MADem Nov 2012 #37
LMAO, most students are dependents and lalalu Nov 2012 #38
Emancipation is only possible for those under 18. treestar Nov 2012 #47
That is not true. lalalu Nov 2012 #61
Stop confusing FINANCIAL AID with TUITION. They are not the same thing. nt MADem Nov 2012 #68
The term emancipation does not apply to people who are already adults treestar Nov 2012 #74
Most students are over 18, and therefore, emancipated adults in the eyes of the law. MADem Nov 2012 #50
lalalulu is actually claiming people remain minors treestar Nov 2012 #75
No, just that some of you have minor intelligence. lalalu Nov 2012 #76
The poster is being deliberately obstreperous, I believe. MADem Nov 2012 #79
If they were giving in-state rates to out-of-state illegal immigrants, but not to NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #64
Oat of them are Americans. roody Nov 2012 #83
People who live in the state, who shop in the stores and pay sales tax, who MADem Nov 2012 #84
Agree lalalu Nov 2012 #10
How about a high school diploma from a Massachusetts public school? nt MADem Nov 2012 #13
That is not enough. lalalu Nov 2012 #14
You're not accurate, there. You're way off the mark, in fact. MADem Nov 2012 #16
See post 16. A utility bill and a MA high school diploma will get you in the door. nt MADem Nov 2012 #17
No it will not. lalalu Nov 2012 #22
You plainly don't know what it means--how many college students are under 18, hmmmmm? MADem Nov 2012 #28
So now you claim all illegal immigrant students are lalalu Nov 2012 #31
Bullshit. All "emancipated" means is that a minor is able to enter into a contract. MADem Nov 2012 #40
Emancipated does not mean that and I have shown you lalalu Nov 2012 #42
You have shown me that facts mean nothing to you, and that you are unwilling to learn even when MADem Nov 2012 #51
They are "residents" of Massachusetts. MADem Nov 2012 #12
States give residents lower tuition because their income and sales taxes help support the school Orangepeel Nov 2012 #20
They were brought to the US as children treestar Nov 2012 #33
They've resided in the state most of their lives. MADem Nov 2012 #41
Exactly treestar Nov 2012 #45
I have no problem with what the governor is doing in support of these kids. MADem Nov 2012 #54
The point is that STATE TAXPAYERS get lower in-state rates. Xithras Nov 2012 #86
Back in the early 90s when I was about to attend college WilmywoodNCparalegal Nov 2012 #52
Now see, I disagree with you-- you should have been given the in state rate, assuming MADem Nov 2012 #55
As a minor, I had no options either WilmywoodNCparalegal Nov 2012 #57
You had legal standing--and your parents had the option to apply for citizenship MADem Nov 2012 #63
You are wrong on a few counts WilmywoodNCparalegal Nov 2012 #85
I'm a bit disgusted at your comments, frankly. You ARE "blaming the kids" if you don't realize that MADem Nov 2012 #87
You can sure tell that Massachusetts is a Democratic state by this. The wave of ALEC-inspired state pampango Nov 2012 #58
These children did nothing wrong. They are part of our community. MADem Nov 2012 #69
Good points. Conservatives don't want any move towards legalization because it removes pampango Nov 2012 #72
Education brings prosperity and opportunity to the population as a whole Politicub Nov 2012 #70
Resident of a state/commonwealth vs. Resident of a country marshall Nov 2012 #71
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