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Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
140. The Founders steadfastly rejected putting term limits in the Constitution.
Tue Oct 9, 2012, 06:34 AM
Oct 2012

Washington made his own personal decision about retiring after two terms, as did subsequent presidents following his example, but those actually structuring the government and creating its fundamental law specifically rejected term limits as undemocratic.

There is another thing. Washington was making that personal decision in an atmosphere of uncertainty as to the direction that the United States would take. There were those who wanted to offer Washington a crown. Nobody had any experience of running a government with no king. Thus, Washington wanted to squelch any thoughts of hereditary rule. And circumstances did not arise until much later--after THAT issue had been settled--that might have prompted a leader to run for a third term. Lincoln was foreclosed from doing so by assassination. And not until the total fuckup of the rich and their Great Depression did the issue of a third or more terms arise again, with FDR, who had stabilized a failing country, and then, of course, had to deal with the Third Reich and the Japanese Imperium.

FDR was facing the starvation and homelessness of millions of Americans. He met that potential catastrophe not only with creativity and great energy but also with all-important courage and optimism. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." That line was spoken about the Great Depression not about the war. We're talking about a real leader--someone who can turn the very psyches of a people around.

Chavez has had a similar galvanizing impact on Venezuela, which had been broken by "neo-liberalism"--by the kind of looting by the rich and "austerity" for the poor that we're seeing in Europe--an assault by the rich and the banksters that hit Latin America before it hit the rest of the western world. The Bolivarian Revolution, like the New Deal, took this catastrophe on, totally, and, though it is a country-wide transformation, driven by the people as much as it is led by Chavez, Chavez has provided those vital elements of courage and optimism. He is very like FDR.

It has been very clear, all along, that that is how Venezuelans view Chavez. They have been consistent in that view from the beginning. His approval rating has barely slipped below 60%, throughout his tenure, and he has won honest and transparent elections time and again, by big margins.

And Venezuelans have supported Chavez all this time in spite of the non-stop political campaign waged by the Corporate Media against him, including, during the 2002 coup d'etat, the Corporate Media directly participating in the overthrow of the elected government. So it is not as if Venezuelans are unaware of every rightwing "talking point" that the Corporate Media have tried to hammer into their heads, from the charge that he is a "dictator" to the charge that he is "incompetent," and everything in between. Venezuelans consulted their own experience and their own judgement of the Chavez government. They voted as a people to let him run for a third term and then they elected him again.

FDR faced similar circumstances--an often vitriolic anti-FDR, anti-New Deal press, which also called him a "dictator." Neither of these leaders is a "dictator." But both have acted in the interest of the great majority of the people against the interests of the rich few and their overweaning wealth and power, and that is why they got called "dictatorial"-- because they wouldn't be dictated to by the rich!.

I want to note again how the decision about term limits was made here vs. how it was made in Venezuela. Here, it was made by the political class, led by the Republicans, in an amendment to the Constitution that clearly violated the intent of the Founders. It was made in Washington and in state capitols. In Venezuela, the decision was made by a vote of the people in an election system that Jimmy Carter recently called "the best in the world" for transparency and honesty. If this matter had been put to a vote of the people here, it might well have become apparent to them that it was an anti-New Deal move made by the moneyed class. The Democratic leaders would not have been able to defend it, because their real reason for supporting it was their fear of an Eisenhower third term. This was foolish and short-sighted. The menace behind the 22nd amendment might have been perceived if the matter had been put to a popular vote.

The flawed amendment process, in our own Constitution, is an example of the less than democratic views that were current in that era. Many of our Founders didn't trust "the people" on some matters--on amending the Constitution by popular vote, for instance--but, curiously, they DID trust them to be able to judge a leader's performance in office as to keeping that leader in office for as long as they wished. They were quite adamant on this point.

Merely getting elected to a second, or third term, or more, does NOT make you a scofflaw, a "dictator" or anything else. What you are depends on what you do with the mandate you have been given, in additional terms of office. Chavez has never overstepped the law. NEVER! That can't even be said about FDR! (i.e. the Japanese interment camps). Chavez in fact has scrupulously followed the law and has also made his program very clear. Venezuelans have known very well what they were endorsing and what to expect from President Chavez. They are a very democratic people--passionately democratic--and it is an insult to them to presume that they are stupid peasants who don't know what they're doing--who somehow keep electing a "dictator" or an "incompetent."

Finally, I would just say this, about term limits: We have term limits on many offices now in the U.S. including president, and do we have a better democracy? Hm? The upshot of term limits is that corporate/war profiteer lobbyists run our government and write our laws! Term limits are part of a package of corruption and corrupt ideas that are in truth destroying our democracy--along with all those New Deal reforms that our forebears tried to insure for posterity--for us--by voting for FDR four times.

Power can be used for good or for ill. But without power, you can do nothing. Yes, incumbency gives you an edge of power. You have TIME to put regulators in charge of the banksters and make sure they do the job they are supposed to do. You have TIME to find out who's who, and what's what, in the systems that have failed, and TIME to correct them and correct them thoughtfully and well. You have TIME to create entirely new systems, to bring fresh ideas to fruition. You have TIME to change the culture within government and the private economy. You have TIME to appoint better judges, to influence legislative committees, to educate and mentor new and better leaders in every field. You have TIME to create a better democracy, with more equal income and opportunity, and more public participation.

You can abuse this power that TIME gives you, or you can use it to do the will of the people. And it is up to the people to monitor and judge what you have done. It is an arbitrary law that says that, despite how you have used the power that you have been given, the people cannot vote for you again, even if they very much approve of your actions and want you to continue. And it is an arbitrary opinion, from the outside, that says that they shouldn't do this--lift term limits, let their president run again (also, governors)--if, in their judgement, that is a beneficial decision.

In practical terms, Venezuela has universal free health care, universal free education through college, very low unemployment, good wages and benefits, strong labor protections, high economic growth, high public participation and clean elections. They don't have term limits.

In the U.S., on the other hand, education and health care have become unaffordable for many people; we have high unemployment, shit wages, vastly decreasing benefits; an outright assault on labor rights; economic growth is at a standstill; the banksters are out of control; our people are disempowered and demoralized, and our election system is extremely corrupt and riggable. And we have term limits.

I rest my case.





Chavez wins Venezuelan election [View all] Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 OP
Good for him. joshcryer Oct 2012 #1
Now, will you promise to calm down for awhile? Like, for his entire term, maybe? harmonicon Oct 2012 #108
It was an election. C'mon, give me a break. joshcryer Oct 2012 #116
Those results seem to be inline with the polls I found. Ash_F Oct 2012 #2
There were exit polls favoring Capriles earlier today Warpy Oct 2012 #52
Exit polls by the firm Varianzas...Now look at the list Ash_F Oct 2012 #64
The people of Venezuela have spoken (again). Comrade Grumpy Oct 2012 #3
Yeah, 16% of the 26% Chavez won by in 2006 went to Capriles. joshcryer Oct 2012 #6
Uh? What? Please explain. 2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #15
Chavez won by 26% in 2006. He won by 10% in 2012. 16% that went for him went to Capriles. joshcryer Oct 2012 #16
Not sure how you come up with that. Wilms Oct 2012 #21
Fair enough, but he had to take votes *away* from Chavez. joshcryer Oct 2012 #27
Remind me never to hire you as my accountant. 2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #55
Fair enough. joshcryer Oct 2012 #59
Whatever, Mr. Al-Sahaf. 2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #106
LOL Kurovski Oct 2012 #127
Sour grapes news-splanation? Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #72
Capriles is not right wing. joshcryer Oct 2012 #92
Wiki says you are wrong, for the millionth +1 time. Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #95
The wiki is wrong. joshcryer Oct 2012 #99
Then I suggest you edit the wiki page. Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #100
I would but Wikipedia has a no original research clause. joshcryer Oct 2012 #103
Psst. "Authoritative sources". Spider Jerusalem Oct 2012 #141
good point, but on reflection the shoe fits. Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #142
I have wondered about that also. Anyone who would want to see all the work done, not just by Chavez sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #152
Thanks, Guy Whitey Corngood. Great, wonderful news. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #4
Were they also having congressional elections? If so, when will those results be known? Ken Burch Oct 2012 #5
Those aren't until 2015. State elections (governors) are in December. joshcryer Oct 2012 #7
Thanks for the info. Ken Burch Oct 2012 #51
This message was self-deleted by its author Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #8
I respect the democratic process. He is their choice. bluestateguy Oct 2012 #9
Capriles coneeding now on Globovision. joshcryer Oct 2012 #10
Whatta ya know? His show has been renewed for another season. Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2012 #11
Well, that sucks. Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #12
Your displeasure is my pleasure. 2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #14
2ndAmForComputers, I agree with Pterodactyl cstanleytech Oct 2012 #32
The United States had no term limits whatsoever when people kept electing FDR. Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #37
Yes, I know that judi and sure you sometimes get a gem but more often than not having someone in cstanleytech Oct 2012 #39
Then propose a bill that puts term limits on being super-wealthy cprise Oct 2012 #82
Not if it is the people's will that they be in power. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #128
Well I will point out that apparently it was the will of the people that Bush was given a 2nd term cstanleytech Oct 2012 #135
That's called democracy. Scootaloo Oct 2012 #138
Well this American didnt vote for that asshole in either election. cstanleytech Oct 2012 #139
That whole fdr era was such a nightmare. Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #74
Did you just stop after the cstanleytech Oct 2012 #104
Bush never got elected in the first place Hydra Oct 2012 #122
Term limits make it harder though for problems to become deeply rooted. cstanleytech Oct 2012 #123
It's a nice idea in theory Hydra Oct 2012 #125
I dont know, I still think its a bad idea but hey maybe it will work out for Chavez and his country cstanleytech Oct 2012 #133
Then you must hate our Congress, Supreme Court and Senate. sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #153
I dont hate them, no. cstanleytech Oct 2012 #156
Yes I have felt that way at times, but then when I really think about it, I realize it is not term sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #157
And why is that? The Doctor. Oct 2012 #29
What do you mean? You think US elections are rigged? Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #124
I think so. Rigged AND cajiggered. Kurovski Oct 2012 #129
Well, I hope it's rigged in our favor instead of theirs. Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #149
There is no 'rigged in our favor'. The Doctor. Oct 2012 #151
OK. Pterodactyl Oct 2012 #159
That's not what 'transparent' means. The Doctor. Oct 2012 #150
Perhaps the right will win here to brighten your day. Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #73
. fascisthunter Oct 2012 #84
Good, f*** the NYT/Reuters Capriles propaganda LittleBlue Oct 2012 #13
Since when do Dictators run for re-election? Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2012 #17
See #14. 2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #53
Well, I guess Matt Drudge is in mourning Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2012 #18
Venezuela's Capriles accepts defeat, congratulates Chavez on re-election Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #19
Wonderful Victory for President Chavez, Big Loss for U.S. Capitalists and Their Puppets. Justina For Justice Oct 2012 #20
I beg to differ - big win for the US... JackRiddler Oct 2012 #22
Thumbs up and welcome Justina........... socialist_n_TN Oct 2012 #158
This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Oct 2012 #23
I have never seen why this man is so criticized tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #24
Because the Venezuelan equivalent of country club Republicans used to run the country, Lydia Leftcoast Oct 2012 #26
Well said!! Thank you. Overseas Oct 2012 #48
+1,000 LarryNM Oct 2012 #62
That's a good summary tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #121
If he was running here, we on the left would all be supporting him, he would be like FDR on social sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #154
Lydia's got it. Kurovski Oct 2012 #130
The U.S. has a history of supporting right wing parties and dictators. moondust Oct 2012 #46
That can be summed up as being dipsydoodle Oct 2012 #70
Socialist. Oil. n/t bitchkitty Oct 2012 #119
Because the Oligarchy doesn't like that he neutralized them obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #143
Good, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2012 #25
My condolences to the people of Venezuela. I love weed Oct 2012 #28
Keep smokin'. The Doctor. Oct 2012 #31
Dude. You're making us look bad. Panasonic Oct 2012 #35
Wrong turn? Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #75
Viva Socialism - TBF Oct 2012 #80
How dare they vote for the government they want. (nt) harmonicon Oct 2012 #109
Democracy sucks hauweg Oct 2012 #113
Aren't you the cutest thing! obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #144
Live streaming of Chavez acceptance speech flamingdem Oct 2012 #30
Cool! They're still celebrating in the streets. Thank you. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #44
He can give a rousing speech flamingdem Oct 2012 #45
This is going to make the GOPers angry Cali_Democrat Oct 2012 #33
What accounts for the exit poll win for the opposition? iandhr Oct 2012 #34
I'm waiting for an explanation from the Spanish newspaper that Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #40
Check out this subthread. Ash_F Oct 2012 #66
Failed precipitous optimism and wishful thinking dipsydoodle Oct 2012 #69
Right wing disinformation. Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #76
It's "funny", The right wing wants to pretend fake exit polls in Venezueala are real Kurovski Oct 2012 #131
there were no exit polls fascisthunter Oct 2012 #85
The CIA. hughee99 Oct 2012 #107
K&R!!! DeSwiss Oct 2012 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author onehandle Oct 2012 #38
It's sad a2liberal Oct 2012 #41
He knew saying he would Vote for Obama would help him JI7 Oct 2012 #42
Next presidential election, 2019. David__77 Oct 2012 #43
I believe the recall must wait a year or two and I think that would be a stupid move. joshcryer Oct 2012 #49
Im sorry but he's been in power for too long davidn3600 Oct 2012 #47
FDR died much too early. David__77 Oct 2012 #56
You regret FDR's 4th term? Peace Patriot Oct 2012 #63
Great write-up. Thanks for sharing. Ash_F Oct 2012 #65
Our term limits is not about cancelling democracy, it comes from George Washington davidn3600 Oct 2012 #89
I wouldn't look to someone who owned slaves for a reasonable example about anything. harmonicon Oct 2012 #111
The Founders steadfastly rejected putting term limits in the Constitution. Peace Patriot Oct 2012 #140
The problem in the US isn't term limits davidn3600 Oct 2012 #148
This should be an OP -- seriously obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #146
I wonder if Venezuelans think it's too long Blue Yorker Oct 2012 #68
Why? Are Venezuelans too stupid to decide on their own government or something? harmonicon Oct 2012 #110
+1 obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #147
Yeah, he's a regular King Louis XIV NoGOPZone Oct 2012 #120
So True! Louis would have sent heating oil to poor people in the USA if he could have. Kurovski Oct 2012 #132
What did you not like about FDR? obamanut2012 Oct 2012 #145
K&R. Glad to hear it. Overseas Oct 2012 #50
Woo-hoo! Congratulations Venezuela! Zorra Oct 2012 #54
This is what a real democracy looks like joelz Oct 2012 #57
Excellent news. Viva Chavez! Vidar Oct 2012 #58
Sweet! ronnie624 Oct 2012 #60
I don't think Capriles really expected to "win" this election. I love weed Oct 2012 #61
Yes...we've been waiting for Castro's health problems Jazzgirl Oct 2012 #81
yes and he'll be waiting for 6 years..and if Chavez dies his VP takes over..you need to hold off Swagman Oct 2012 #86
people with your view have been salivating at the thought for quite some time. frylock Oct 2012 #87
Back in 2002 Capriles and his fellow right wingers thought they could speed up Chavez' 'health sabrina 1 Oct 2012 #155
Good news! JNelson6563 Oct 2012 #67
Viva! leveymg Oct 2012 #71
The oil companies lose another election...eom Kolesar Oct 2012 #77
Seems like he runs every other year Ter Oct 2012 #78
Every six years. harmonicon Oct 2012 #112
Good news for the region dharmamarx Oct 2012 #79
Thanks for the information on Capriles' idea of taking 2/3rds of Guyana's space. Did not know. Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #114
long live democratic socialism! fascisthunter Oct 2012 #83
here here!!!!! Great Caesars Ghost Oct 2012 #88
I love your sig line. It needs (said no one ever) right after it. yurbud Oct 2012 #90
Thank you. I've always found that saying to be both funny and sad because it Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #91
it's the mindset politicians have adopted to grassroots initiatives yurbud Oct 2012 #93
We've kept our gun powder so dry that it's just turned into black talcum. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Oct 2012 #94
I hate the saying, "The Democratic Party is where progressive movements go to die..." yurbud Oct 2012 #98
The mole community not liking this one Kingofalldems Oct 2012 #96
ˇˇˇViva Chavez!!! bitchkitty Oct 2012 #97
And perhaps a modest celebration, why not? Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #115
Martha Reeves - bitchkitty Oct 2012 #118
That would have been epic. What an experience you had. Judi Lynn Oct 2012 #126
Congrats Chavez! LiberalLovinLug Oct 2012 #101
WoooHooo! Megahurtz Oct 2012 #102
Rock on Hugo Mosaic Oct 2012 #105
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Oct 2012 #117
Don't be so cynical! Kurovski Oct 2012 #134
Hey, you better fix that and pronto. cstanleytech Oct 2012 #136
We'll give a cry of "Hallelujah"! Kurovski Oct 2012 #137
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