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In reply to the discussion: Protesters again take to uptown streets (of Charlotte) [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)117. You must not have listened to the part of the convention where both the mentally and physically
Last edited Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:22 AM - Edit history (1)
Disabled and what is helping millions were the focus, with rousing cheers to protect their current and future housing and medical care. Bill Clinton and others were clear about what would happen to the mentally disabled under a Romney and Ryan plan. Which is the Libertarian plan:
I read a thread where someone saying Occupy runs soup kitchens and are the only ones who care about the homeless, disabled, etc. That is the Libertarian Party platform, that they can survive on charity, and the government must go away. Not only that, but Social Security must go away, which is what is keeping millions of people right now from being hungry and homeless.
Instead, the people inside the convention center know and work with these folks daily. These are the people doing the work, and not tearing down what works. The numbers I quote with links below show the many millions they serve and how they are helped by Democratic policies, which have been hampered by Republicans for decades. I want to point out for those who are not familiar with these programs, that some overlap and some do not.
We are talking about well over a hundred million people getting the essentials of life right now. Not everyone needs these. How many millions of people is Occupy serving at the soup kitchen?
I wanted to see the similarities and contrasts with the Occupy movement, Libertarian and Democratic Parties. Here is some info:
In 2012, over 56 million Americans will receive $778 billion in Social Security benefits.
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/basicfact.htm
Medicaid is the nations largest health program in terms of number of recipients, serving 56 million to Medicares 48 million.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/medicaid/index.html
More than a third of Americans lived in households receiving government assistance in 2010.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/07/news/economy/government_assistance/index.htm
More than 46.6 Million Americans Participated in SNAP in June 2012
http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/
The Libertarian Party Platform on Welfare:
http://www.lp.org/issues/poverty-and-welfare
The Libertarian Party Platform on Health care:
http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Libertarian_Party_Health_Care.htm
More Libertarian, Ron Paul, Tea Bagger ideas that Democrats do not believe in:
Libertarians believe that taxes should be abolished along with all the programs and departments that taxes fund. Libertarians dont believe in Medicare. Libertarians dont believe in Social Security. Libertarians dont believe that there should be fire departments, police departments, public transportation, grants for education, unemployment, disability, food stamps, and every other type of government system and assistance that you can think of.
Libertarians wish to eliminate taxes in order to eliminate all of the above programs and more. Libertarians believe that without these taxes, individuals will have more money in their pockets and will be able to afford all of these things. If someone is unable to provide themselves or their family with school, health care, or food, people need to rely on family members, church, or a private charity.
Libertarians believe that governments role in the market should be to protect property owners rights. There should be no FDA, equal employment opportunities, unions, minimum wage, payroll taxes, safe food handling requirements, consumer protections, regulations that protect against financial conflicts of interest and fraud, and business licenses.
Libertarians believe that business owners should have the right to deny entry to minorities and/or women and/or people with disabilities, if that is how business owners wish to run their businesses.
http://deni-edwards.hubpages.com/hub/Defining-a-Libertarian-Ron-Pauls-Political-Platform
Which is essentially what the Occupy social program being touted here is, so they can make a soup kitchen for those they find on the streets, then go home when they feel like it, because at the end of the day. they do have homes and food, and can stop camping out. That there are those who are not getting services, is not the fault of the Democrats, but Republicans.
It is they who cut the funding, because like Libertarians, they do not believe in taxing and paying for those who fall through the cracks, just let them line up for the soup kitchen. The people who get the experience of feeding someone who is homeless, go home afterward.
Those who are determined to change the basis of society, which Occupy says it wants to do, are not in waiting for the future, but involved right now as the needs of the people cannot wait. People die when the government shuts down these services, while others argue.
Social Security and Medicaid keeps millions of people Occupiers will never meet, and have no idea exist, off the streets. Yet they disapprove of those who are doing the work to keep them alive and well, because it's a 'statist' thing. Because it's not ideologically pure enough. Compromises are made, too, which those who know people in the system know keep people alive now. People in need of a place to live, medical care and food to eat don't deserve to have to wait for people to visit and serve them food, they need it everyday, they need a healthy living place and the security of knowing that it's going to keep coming. They need the government to do it, not individuals.
But those of us who are Democrats know that taking care of millions of people is not something should be dependent on private charitable acts. That a social infrastructure needs to be in place for people that the vast majority of people do not know, have never met and whose needs are not temporary and cannot be taken care of during a few days visiting them and some that most people do not want to spend any time with, period.
The solutions were inside the convention, and just by a show of the numbers I posted here prove that Democrats are and do and will continue to help many more people than Occupy ever will. Occupy refuses to accept the many thousands of public workers, unions, the Democratic Party and the concept working inside the evil government and voting.
So do Libertarians, as they have a plan to end all government so there will be no votes needed. All back to the good old boys and corporations to say how our lives will be led. The Libertarian conquest of Occupy is complete and their vision is just fine for those who can afford to stand tall and mock the people doing the work.
Ironic how Occupy telling people to not vote for Obama and Democrats reflects exactly and facilitates the goals of Romney and Ryan, the Libertarian party and the GOP/Koch brothers plans for the poor, elderly, disabled and homeless.
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They are shitting in the punch. "Waaah, we won't vote for anyone! THAT's how we'll FIX 'em!"
MADem
Sep 2012
#27
Somebody had to protest outside the DNC. It's the all American way. God bless you.
limpyhobbler
Sep 2012
#81
Accusations of poor hygene have historically been used to discredit movements.
limpyhobbler
Sep 2012
#155
I'm not close to dead yet, but every year I spend on earth, I find more reasons to like the place.
MADem
Sep 2012
#162
That protest didn't work...did it? Nixon got elected and the war lastd 7 more years.
demosincebirth
Sep 2012
#102
I agree...and in '72 the same goup took over the dem party and and nominated McGovern for pres,
demosincebirth
Sep 2012
#115
Because Nixon double-crossed the AFLCIO & turned the more well off unions against
patrice
Sep 2012
#123
Yeah, I remember going to corporate Christmas parties that year with my spouse.
patrice
Sep 2012
#132
Come on--the only person quoted was "Occupy." The pictures are captioned "Occupy."
MADem
Sep 2012
#33
It's the Julian Assange/Bradley Manning supporters that like those Guy Fawke masks.
Cleita
Sep 2012
#36
Well, they were all wrapped up in the few dozen people with the Occupy permit to march.
MADem
Sep 2012
#43
You keep saying that like anyone is suggesting they DON'T have the right to make asses of themselves
MADem
Sep 2012
#63
I think you are in the wrong place. No body said what they are doing is cool other than asserting
Cleita
Sep 2012
#67
You're the one vigorously defending them. And you're not just defending their "right" to protest,
MADem
Sep 2012
#71
Nobody is saying they can't protest. You're defending something no one is arguing about.
MADem
Sep 2012
#74
If you aren't going to bother to read the material, look at the pictures of the protesters
MADem
Sep 2012
#116
From where I stand, it looks as though Democrats will have more opportunities to offer a hand
patrice
Sep 2012
#109
You must not have listened to the part of the convention where both the mentally and physically
freshwest
Sep 2012
#117
Though some of the poor and disadvantaged do want to bash heads with cops, I'd bet MOST do not.
patrice
Sep 2012
#120
Thanks for this. The Occupy folk seem to me to have collapsed into nebulous mush some time ago
struggle4progress
Sep 2012
#133
I'm sorry, but you're whistling in the dark, here. There was an "Occupy the DNC" protest planned
MADem
Sep 2012
#38
No one is saying that they don't have a "democratic right to protest." That's a fake assertion.
MADem
Sep 2012
#53
Anyone who thinks burning the Presidential oath of office is anything but a dumb-ass, stupid protest
MADem
Sep 2012
#61
Yes, I DO have every right to call them names. They are stupid people doing a very stupid thing.
MADem
Sep 2012
#65
You may find out your children might be some of those people you call morons. Just sayin'
Cleita
Sep 2012
#68
Of course they have the right to protest. Doesn't mean they are not stupid.
Pterodactyl
Sep 2012
#16
I sadly remember Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II -- and for the next 60 days, my main objective
struggle4progress
Sep 2012
#44
That's not a valid characterization. How involved have you personally been with an Occupy?
patrice
Sep 2012
#121
Could you link me to where in this thread someone said that they didnt have that right?
cstanleytech
Sep 2012
#22
Personally, I think all of their almost exclusively hierarchical focus is evidence of a failure of
patrice
Sep 2012
#119
You know that protesters, who were bloodied and arrested gave you civil rights. Some died.
Cleita
Sep 2012
#47
He clearly stayed awake in the "Defusing hectoring and goading civilians" lecture.
MADem
Sep 2012
#66
I'm am glad to read of these protests and would be disappointed if there were none.
mountain grammy
Sep 2012
#35
More like protestations or complaints than actual protests, but I take your meaning.
Kurovski
Sep 2012
#95
The only worthwhile form of political expression in America is to work through the Democratic Party.
limpyhobbler
Sep 2012
#89
+100000 It's ALL a verb. People should think more in probabilities and act with more ISSUE integrity
patrice
Sep 2012
#110
I do hope Vice President Gore will consider running for President in 2016
limpyhobbler
Sep 2012
#161
I need this organized group to address the point that their course of action will result in more
patrice
Sep 2012
#104
Not much of an absolutist here, but I will fight tooth and nail ANYONE who says "Don't vote."
patrice
Sep 2012
#112
There's no definite agenda, and there's no definite strategy -- so it's a bust
struggle4progress
Sep 2012
#135
The protesters were pretty well treated IMO. Lots of possible arrests weren't made
struggle4progress
Sep 2012
#141
Unintentional irony is not dead! I'm betting that sign waver thought that contribution was profound
MADem
Sep 2012
#163
I vote; I encourage others to vote; and I regularly register people to vote
struggle4progress
Sep 2012
#156
warrprayer calls me an asshat in #138. so i thought i'd indicate who the real asshats are
struggle4progress
Sep 2012
#157