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Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
21. Hogwash
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 09:43 PM
Jun 2012

Nobody has to prove their innocence in this country unless they have already been convicted. Innocent until proven guilty is the standard in all 50 states. These laws were written by the wingnut organization ALEC for the bullshit reason of pandering to gun nuts to try to 'solve' a problem that never existed in the first place.

If you want to talk "justifiable homicide" I can give you multiple instances in Florida alone where people who were the aggressor shot and killed or seriously wounded unarmed people and got away with it as a direct result of these laws. Zimmerman would have gotten away with it too had it not been for an overwealming public outcry of injustice and still may.

Stand-your-ground is a marketing term devised by ALEC to convince those who didn't take the time to actually read the law that it actually serves a useful purpose. It doesn't and never did. These laws and the one in Florida in particular are more accurately described as 'shoot first'.

A link to additional article, below Tx4obama Jun 2012 #1
Long overdue. kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #2
Yes. nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #3
Finally ~ why the delay on fighting goclark Jun 2012 #10
These Stand Your Groundlaws place the responsibility and privilege of making certain decisions about JDPriestly Jun 2012 #4
Exactly. n/t Hoyt Jun 2012 #5
Absolutely agree. nt chknltl Jun 2012 #7
you think duty to retreat was just? gejohnston Jun 2012 #13
The presumption is that you should not kill anyone, that murder is never justified. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #18
might want to take a second look gejohnston Jun 2012 #27
The prosecutor only files charges if there is a question as to whether the murder was justified. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #28
I didn't coin the term. gejohnston Jun 2012 #30
The correct translation from the Old Testament is "Thou Shalt not murder" ... spin Jun 2012 #33
Yes. I understand the Commandment in those terms and agree with you. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #37
That is your view ... spin Jun 2012 #42
Hogwash Major Nikon Jun 2012 #21
hogwash gejohnston Jun 2012 #24
Feel free to list when "presumption of innocence" was suspended in the US, because I can't find it Major Nikon Jun 2012 #31
why not look up the law? gejohnston Jun 2012 #32
You should have read it yourself before you commented Major Nikon Jun 2012 #35
Did you actually read the two situations where the aggressor hack89 Jun 2012 #38
Did you actually read this thread? Major Nikon Jun 2012 #41
I was just pointing out that the exceptions are very limited. That's all. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #43
The exception is big enough to drive a Mack truck through Major Nikon Jun 2012 #44
No - it says the other guy can't kill you for starting a fist fight or verbal confrontation. hack89 Jun 2012 #46
That's not what it says Major Nikon Jun 2012 #47
No - there is still the reasonable man standard hack89 Jun 2012 #50
So how do you account for the fact that the law doesn't say what you're claiming? Major Nikon Jun 2012 #52
That has been the standard for self defense for at least 15 years hack89 Jun 2012 #53
Did you read the actual law ? hack89 Jun 2012 #51
OK, I've had enough Major Nikon Jun 2012 #54
No problem - interpreting statutes can get complicated hack89 Jun 2012 #56
I did read it. gejohnston Jun 2012 #45
Right. For example, in the Zimmerman case, if the case went to trial, JDPriestly Jun 2012 #40
So rather than trust in the jury system, you'd rather leave it up to police csziggy Jun 2012 #22
actually not true gejohnston Jun 2012 #23
No they don't. AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #17
You are quite incorrect as to the nature of SYG laws ProgressiveProfessor Jun 2012 #25
They never had unaccountable power. The DA, for one, is usually an elected official, not JDPriestly Jun 2012 #39
FL is unique in that regards ProgressiveProfessor Jun 2012 #48
As for example, when someone is robbing a convenience store at gunpoint. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #49
A possibility for something good to come from Trayvan Martin's ... etherealtruth Jun 2012 #6
From the beginning, it's the only positive outcome I've seen coming from this tragedy. . . Journeyman Jun 2012 #11
The way racism affects SYG, they MUST look at this case: chknltl Jun 2012 #8
From what I have read and heard about it asjr Jun 2012 #9
because you have been ill informed gejohnston Jun 2012 #14
Yup. Exactly what the media wants you to believe ... spin Jun 2012 #34
Finally. jwirr Jun 2012 #12
Maybe they should focus on Texas too ...ya think? L0oniX Jun 2012 #15
Thank Goodness! patrice Jun 2012 #16
K&R. Long overdue. Remember Marissa Alexander. Overseas Jun 2012 #19
No - she got 20 years for leaving the situation and then coming back with a gun. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #55
They need to look at WHO is advancing the passage of SYG. Ford_Prefect Jun 2012 #20
Wonder if they are ever going to look into the ongoing capricious use of hate crime enhancements ProgressiveProfessor Jun 2012 #26
The Unholy Trinity: Koch Brothers, ALEC, and the NRA crunch60 Jun 2012 #29
No bad thing in reviewing and reassessing any piece of legislation... LanternWaste Jun 2012 #36
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