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factfinder_77

(841 posts)

14. And since he appears on Fox News his views are illegitimate?

Reply to rog (Reply #3)

Wed Sep 27, 2017, 02:29 PM

Sep 2017

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Bernie is not even a Democrat, so why is he ripping our party apart? [View all] factfinder_77 Sep 2017 OP

It absolutely isn't the time to relitigate the primaries. Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #1

The Dems lost because of voter suppression, which deprived us of millions of votes; pnwmom Sep 2017 #7

Sure. That accounts for some of it. Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #20

Have you been reading about what the Russians were doing on Twitter and Facebook pnwmom Sep 2017 #31

Opposing side buys ads that target the other side! Film at 11 Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #130

The Russians aren't part of the "opposing side." At least they're not supposed to be. pnwmom Sep 2017 #138

Yeah, they are not supposed to be but they are. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #141

With the election as close as it was, the Russian micro-targeted Facebook ads, pnwmom Sep 2017 #146

Agree 100% Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #147

So you're saying that they are a big reason that the election was so close? ehrnst Sep 2017 #266

Nah that was baked in. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #269

What was "baked in?" (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #273

I see your google is broken. Maybe someone else can jump in. I gotta run. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #286

Scared to answer.... ehrnst Sep 2017 #291

well, brer cat Sep 2017 #172

Figuring out how Dems lost Wisconsin in 2010 delisen Sep 2017 #175

Why the election was so close has been discussed here. ehrnst Sep 2017 #261

So a record high unfavorable rating had nothing to do with it? Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #263

And still - she pulled in more votes than any POTUS candidate but BHO ehrnst Sep 2017 #264

Oh yeah, the big nothingburger. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #268

You mean like way back in 2012? ehrnst Sep 2017 #274

I don't need a calculator. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #276

I guess cognitive dissonance overrides math. ehrnst Sep 2017 #277

Yeah, math like in 1984 when the population was around 2/3rds the present population. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #282

Um... did I say 1984? ehrnst Sep 2017 #285

Positively Orwellian George II Sep 2017 #297

The population of the US in 1984 was about 20 million MORE than "2/3rds the present population" George II Sep 2017 #287

The population of the US was in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, etc. was "1//3rd or 1/2" the population... George II Sep 2017 #281

He was making a comparison that she won more votes than ANY presidential candidate. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #283

Oh, I'm caught up alright - but you misstated what SHE said. George II Sep 2017 #284

The desperation to "be the one who's right!!!" ehrnst Sep 2017 #289

Ironic, isn't it? George II Sep 2017 #290

Um - you need to go back and read the thread. ehrnst Sep 2017 #288

+1,000,000 George II Sep 2017 #298

Of course she got more votes "ever" because the U.S. population is the largest "ever" Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #304

Not a meaningless statistic at all - unless you are talking about how likeable HRC is. ehrnst Sep 2017 #317

First, people don't consider a candidate's unfavorable rating when voting, but if they did... George II Sep 2017 #275

Yep. Trump had a high unfavorable rating. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2017 #278

So, if we use your rationale regarding unfavorable ratings, how did Clinton lose? George II Sep 2017 #279

Her favorability ratings were very high radical noodle Sep 2017 #295

Oh right... ehrnst Sep 2017 #280

+1 sheshe2 Sep 2017 #315

She DID crush him! She received more votes than any white candidate in history lunamagica Sep 2017 #98

And don't forget the 25 years the GOP luvtheGWN Sep 2017 #108

Admirable that Hillary unilaterally disclosed all that... but, was it smart politically? InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #179

Are you saying this about her tax returns? ehrnst Sep 2017 #254

I don't really get what you are saying here. Do you mean that it is better to be shady and/or lunamagica Sep 2017 #294

Damn straight. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #265

+1 sheshe2 Sep 2017 #316

Exactly! Unfortunately, there will ALWAYS be third-party candidates running... InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #177

Not very successfully - well without help from Russia, anyway. ehrnst Sep 2017 #255

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #260

Hillary is a "ball buster?" What does that even mean? (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #262

I guess she threatened his masculinity. JHan Sep 2017 #293

totally agree...a perfect storm... samnsara Sep 2017 #87

Straw man again. Understanding what happened is vital to making sure ehrnst Sep 2017 #12

Where did I say anything about "being divisive"? Speaking of strawmen. Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #16

Well, passive aggressive divisiveness is still divisiveness ehrnst Sep 2017 #79

+1,000 NastyRiffraff Sep 2017 #127

Whose relitigating primaries? Adrahil Sep 2017 #21

I'm responding to the OP Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #24

You keep saying that. So how are the primaries being re-litigated? I just don't see it. George II Sep 2017 #72

I keep saying it because it's true. Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #78

The OP pointedly says that this is NOT the time to re-litigate the primaries, and he/she isn't. George II Sep 2017 #85

And I pointedly agreed with that in my subject line. Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #94

The OP does rehash the primaries. DLevine Sep 2017 #95

True, but it's WAY past time to re-litigate what we STAND FOR as a party. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #182

That has already happened. George II Sep 2017 #184

Oh yeah, you're right, forgot about the Democratic leadership's promotion of their "Better Deal." InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #192

You mean like HRC did? Good luck. ehrnst Sep 2017 #292

It's re-litigation to keep arguing that Bernie shouldn't have been allowed in the primaries. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #107

WHERE? I can't locate where it says that. Is that actually a part of the OP? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #136

I didn't claim it was in the OP. I was talking about the general concept of re-litigation. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #164

Why bring it up? It's a straw man and distraction... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #166

What does this have to do with the OP? ehrnst Sep 2017 #173

Nothing. Nothing at all. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #189

I agree... we just need to make adjustments to guarantee the primary process is fair going forward. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #183

What adjustments do we need to make? (tn) ehrnst Sep 2017 #204

I'd like to get rid of caucuses. They restict voting to the privileged few. lapucelle Sep 2017 #270

I agree, and for the same reason. ehrnst Sep 2017 #271

Absolutely yes ... I've always hated that system... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #318

How about this...no non-Democrat can ever run in the Democratic Primary going forward. Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #322

Possibly sanders-progressives can also change delisen Sep 2017 #26

Sure Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #33

Change is the problem. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #48

I'm seeing different stats for the percentage of non-elderly Americans with employer-bases insurance femmedem Sep 2017 #97

Thanks for posting this. kstewart33 Sep 2017 #114

That number might be "90% of nonelderly/child with ins. get it through their employer" ehrnst Sep 2017 #186

I don't see anything even remotely re-litigating the primaries in the OP. Where is that? George II Sep 2017 #43

I was responding LITERALLY to the penultimate paragraph of the OP Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #50

Perhaps if people hadn't told them that both parties were the same Ninsianna Sep 2017 #248

Cuthbert, yes, the primaries ARE over, and it's 2018 time. Hortensis Sep 2017 #56

No one has ever pretended that. One of the major issues right now Ninsianna Sep 2017 #58

The first thing I said at my Democrats Central committee meeting Delmette2.0 Sep 2017 #100

The first think I think when I hear Bernie Sanders macandsandy Sep 2017 #106

Thank you Delmette2.0 Sep 2017 #112

And Hillary - with her decades of effective service and activism ehrnst Sep 2017 #237

Hmmm, New York. I wonder how much it's going to be, would love to see them. George II Sep 2017 #239

Awesome! sheshe2 Sep 2017 #240

In one day the Clinton Foundation does more for people in need than any Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #243

All the issues you mentioned are of vital importance. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #242

. George II Sep 2017 #246

When did HRC "oppose" a $15 minimum? ehrnst Sep 2017 #272

Current and ongoing issues are not re litigating the primaries. There are no Blank Checks. Lil Missy Sep 2017 #135

Just NO. nocoincidences Sep 2017 #2

re: the author of this 'article' ... rog Sep 2017 #3

And since he appears on Fox News his views are illegitimate? factfinder_77 Sep 2017 #14

Here's his bio ehrnst Sep 2017 #17

"Destroys Tucker Carlson", I like the way that sounds. George II Sep 2017 #241

Democrats regularly appear on Fox News, it's been happening since it's inception. George II Sep 2017 #46

How interesting, know who also regularly appears on Fox news? Ninsianna Sep 2017 #71

That's an irrefutable fact and undeniable bit of reality... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #76

Nina Turner appears on FoxNews.... (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #205

Bernie isn't "ripping our party apart." Get a grip. Vinca Sep 2017 #4

But he's not a democrat, dontcha know.... pangaia Sep 2017 #102

I was afraid someone wasn't going to bring that up ProfessorPlum Sep 2017 #191

Stop. LakeArenal Sep 2017 #5

He is only "tearing the Democratic party apart" in the wild imaginations of a bitter minority. phleshdef Sep 2017 #6

Hmmm Clinton is the hardest worker I know delisen Sep 2017 #27

I never said she wasn't and I like her. phleshdef Sep 2017 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author m-lekktor Sep 2017 #151

Actually, Bernie is doing more to bring the party together post-election than is Hillary. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #180

?????????????? heaven05 Sep 2017 #193

Can you give an example of how he is doing that?(nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #208

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #230

Her book tour is divisive? ehrnst Sep 2017 #236

Amazing accusations and insults. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #253

Actually, that's not true. Unless 'unity" now means be as divisive as possible by Ninsianna Sep 2017 #249

Define "normal Democrat" please. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #207

I'll give you a hint... its not DU web warriors like ourselves. phleshdef Sep 2017 #221

That's a hint, not an answer. ehrnst Sep 2017 #223

I could, but I usually refuse to answer questions that common sense can answer. phleshdef Sep 2017 #224

So you don't have an answer to back up your remark about "normal Democrats" ehrnst Sep 2017 #225

I do. And you know the answer. But you are being annoying on purpose. phleshdef Sep 2017 #226

I'm not the one saying things I can't back up. ehrnst Sep 2017 #227

Lol, you THINK you called me out. That's cute. phleshdef Sep 2017 #232

Can't walk away, can you? ehrnst Sep 2017 #233

I'm thin skinned? phleshdef Sep 2017 #234

Hey, you were the one who brought it up ehrnst Sep 2017 #235

No one "needs to put their money where their mouth is"... phleshdef Sep 2017 #238

Oh. Now we've resorted to going ad Hominem. ehrnst Sep 2017 #251

Your entire existence in this exchange is the epitome of ad hominem... phleshdef Sep 2017 #256

"I know you are but what am I?" ehrnst Sep 2017 #257

A legend in your own mind. phleshdef Sep 2017 #258

Well, I guess that settles it! ehrnst Sep 2017 #259

Beware: Thou Shalt Not Speak Ill of the Senator from Vermont MineralMan Sep 2017 #8

IF OP didnt know before, they do now. GONE Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #60

It appears that the poster used up his last hidden post. MineralMan Sep 2017 #61

I will take zero glee when I am proven to be correct about what I have said and predicted Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #65

So you actually believe that these 'Hillary BASHERS", on this site, cost her the election? Fix The Stupid Sep 2017 #185

no heaven05 Sep 2017 #195

And when will HRC supporters have to do this? zipplewrath Sep 2017 #9

HRC stated that she will not run again. So battling on her behalf is kind of a moot topic now. TheBlackAdder Sep 2017 #22

Guess we need to address Russia, Naziism delisen Sep 2017 #29

But just look at all the nice little clickies it gets.. pangaia Sep 2017 #105

Zip, you're making WAYYY too much sense... we either unite or die as a party. InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #181

Hillary isn't running again. She does, however speak for ehrnst Sep 2017 #188

I don't think he has the power or influence to rip our party apart. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #10

+1000 ehrnst Sep 2017 #13

Sanders-don't see a revolutionary. I see a reformer delisen Sep 2017 #32

Sanders himself sees it differently. Weekend Warrior Sep 2017 #34

His group is called "Our Revolution", not "Our Reformation". George II Sep 2017 #49

Nailed it. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #62

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #187

LOL, how do you say corporations in Latin? R B Garr Sep 2017 #196

Believe it or not, "corporations". They probably didn't exist when Latin was created.... George II Sep 2017 #197

I was actually thinking that, too! R B Garr Sep 2017 #198

"yelling at walls" Me. Sep 2017 #82

Good post...coming from a Sanders fan. Not that I agree with everything in it, but the notion JCanete Sep 2017 #122

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #11

It's posts like this that rip our party apart. panader0 Sep 2017 #15

Well, that's rich. Cuthbert Allgood Sep 2017 #23

another anti bernie post sigh dembotoz Sep 2017 #18

This is as annoying as the posters who post nothing but 'pro-Sanders' articles. SharonClark Sep 2017 #19

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #25

This OP does neither of those things. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #37

For your edification... tonedevil Sep 2017 #38

That's nice. Nobody is being "bashed" in the OP. Someone's behavior... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #45

Perhaps you should ask... tonedevil Sep 2017 #47

The OP stands, and there you have it. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #53

The op is now ffr. Voltaire2 Sep 2017 #52

The OP stands, and there you have it. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #54

The poster is gone, tonedevil Sep 2017 #57

Yes. It must have been something else. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #59

Whatever it takes. /nt tonedevil Sep 2017 #67

And this OP remains. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #70

EH, there is another new person on the same "mission" who will take up the slack!nt m-lekktor Sep 2017 #152

What mission? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #162

How do you relitigate that which has not been litigated? delisen Sep 2017 #42

That's an interesting question. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #110

NJ, I often disagree with your positions but I always admire your rhetorical skill ... philly_bob Sep 2017 #149

Thanks... NurseJackie Sep 2017 #160

That's a curious post. George II Sep 2017 #69

Oh for fuck's sake STAAAAAAAAAAHHHP. HughBeaumont Sep 2017 #30

Of course he bears responsibility, just as alll delisen Sep 2017 #40

I agree 100% ... It's all true! Thanks for sharing this! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #35

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #41

Well melman Sep 2017 #36

Well damn, MuseRider Sep 2017 #51

He disrupted poorly. LAGC Sep 2017 #66

No it didn't, it's still there. George II Sep 2017 #74

Some helpful links melman Sep 2017 #89

Why are you so happy? George II Sep 2017 #91

Happy? melman Sep 2017 #92

That is what I want to know. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #113

Is it really? melman Sep 2017 #118

I dont understand being gleeful when a loyal Democrat is silenced Eliot Rosewater Sep 2017 #120

That's one way to look at it melman Sep 2017 #134

Please exapand on that. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #140

What's the point? melman Sep 2017 #200

I guess argument by innuendo is a thing now. ehrnst Sep 2017 #209

Okay melman Sep 2017 #216

If there is more than one person looking at any situation there just might be Autumn Sep 2017 #199

Seriously melman Sep 2017 #201

That's a refreshing change, Autumn. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #210

A novel idea eh ehrnst. nt Autumn Sep 2017 #212

Well it's certainly preferable to panties getting in wads over fact checking. ehrnst Sep 2017 #215

Facts are facts and they often get checked. Autumn Sep 2017 #217

But beware the fact check on the wrong career politician... ehrnst Sep 2017 #218

I know what you mean, it happens you look back realize career politicians change. Autumn Sep 2017 #219

And there are those that claim that never changing one's mind over the course ehrnst Sep 2017 #220

Fact... sheshe2 Sep 2017 #228

Surely You Can Guess Me. Sep 2017 #144

Such a shame, and that's a fact. Autumn Sep 2017 #123

I am sad. m-lekktor Sep 2017 #153

Brave Me. Sep 2017 #39

K&R... revmclaren Sep 2017 #44

That's more than 3 paragraphs. nt. druidity33 Sep 2017 #55

I don't feel ripped apart. ananda Sep 2017 #63

Another repeat? guillaumeb Sep 2017 #64

Writer M.S. Hopkins is labeled as "Opinion Contributor" in his byline by The Hill, philly_bob Sep 2017 #68

Michele Alexander, "The New Jim Crow" Jopin Klobe Sep 2017 #73

Um, HRC was realistically the only candidate who was fighting for greater equality Ninsianna Sep 2017 #84

There's pragmatic, and then there's dismissive. Ken Burch Sep 2017 #109

Look forward, Ken. Look forward. Stop focusing on the past. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #117

I am looking forward. We can't MOVE forward as a party Ken Burch Sep 2017 #165

The primary is over. The voters decided. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #168

Bless you. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #203

I appreciate that. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #296

The block of voters that we need to take seriously in 2018 and 2020 sheshe2 Sep 2017 #132

Preach girl, preach! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #299

Hey! Thanks! sheshe2 Sep 2017 #300

She was being dismissed constantly for stating facts that even Bernie knew Ninsianna Sep 2017 #159

Thank you! NurseJackie Sep 2017 #229

Exactly, thank you! R B Garr Sep 2017 #267

She said precisely the opposite in her interview with Chris Hayes BainsBane Sep 2017 #143

"Attacks from Sanders and his supporters on Democrats aren't helping to rebuild the party, ... Lil Missy Sep 2017 #75

It hurts us and makes me wonder who these supporters are? Demsrule86 Sep 2017 #323

Your posts are far more divisive Fiendish Thingy Sep 2017 #77

+100. True. Duppers Sep 2017 #80

Because the article shared is not supportive of Bernie Sanders? ehrnst Sep 2017 #81

Really? How so? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #90

Agree. nt DLevine Sep 2017 #96

How so? sheshe2 Sep 2017 #142

Still waiting for clarification. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #211

We see Bernie very differently. That's a fact. Can we still UNITE? Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #83

i just wonder how the hell both parties are.... samnsara Sep 2017 #86

No Interloper Whatsoever! Me. Sep 2017 #145

The Hill loves to dig at Democrats & stir things up. You took the bait. Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2017 #88

I stand with Bernie and the Democrats! tecelote Sep 2017 #93

This breaks the four paragraph rule. pangaia Sep 2017 #99

Oh dear! Now what? NurseJackie Sep 2017 #103

No emotion at all in my comment. Just a fact. pangaia Sep 2017 #119

Nobody is ridiculing you. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #124

If the Gif... tonedevil Sep 2017 #125

Oh well. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #131

The poster is no longer around to edit it. Autumn Sep 2017 #154

Oh. pangaia Sep 2017 #156

... Hell Hath No Fury Sep 2017 #101

Oh geeze! Here we go again. Stirring the pot. left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #104

It's actually to the point Plucketeer Sep 2017 #115

I'm sick of these daily attacks left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #116

Nobody is being attacked... only the behavior and actions criticized. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #128

Oh looky ! left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #148

You may ignore me ... but ignoring the truth won't change it. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #158

I think that many here confuse criticism of Sanders ehrnst Sep 2017 #213

... LiberalLovinLug Sep 2017 #111

I hate these sort of headlines Dem2 Sep 2017 #121

K&R Gothmog Sep 2017 #126

Talking about social equality WinstonSmith00 Sep 2017 #129

LOL-fresh off his appearance in the debate it's time to bash Bernie again. jalan48 Sep 2017 #133

Nobody is doing that. NurseJackie Sep 2017 #169

Starting to get old... time to move on ya think?!?! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #231

He Isn't! annarbor Sep 2017 #137

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #139

I too am tired of these threads, but this one was better than most philly_bob Sep 2017 #150

Well I guess it might be true that one side has to blink. Exultant Democracy Sep 2017 #155

Bernie isn't ripping the party apart. He's helping the Democratic party aikoaiko Sep 2017 #157

We see Bernie very differently. That's a fact. Can we still UNITE? Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #174

Not with OPs like this. Someone the OP respects need to let them they are now the problem. aikoaiko Sep 2017 #222

Ahhhhhh, so no uniting? Hmmmmmm? Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #245

My point is the OP *is* not uniting. aikoaiko Sep 2017 #247

Woah! Again we DO see Bernie very differently. Like polar opposites. That's really a fact. Madam45for2923 Sep 2017 #250

But he doesn't have a "D" behind his name. romanic Sep 2017 #206

Because he is not a Democrat. democratisphere Sep 2017 #161

I Can Understand You Saying That Me. Sep 2017 #163

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2017 #167

Post removed Post removed Sep 2017 #170

K&R betsuni Sep 2017 #171

Because he wants to be President. PubliusEnigma Sep 2017 #176

Why are some people here ripping our party apart? InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2017 #178

this is the kind of post that might cause a lot of ignoring ProfessorPlum Sep 2017 #190

Attention? LexVegas Sep 2017 #194

How much is the DU anti-Bernie lotto up to now? If it's over $500 million bagelsforbreakfast Sep 2017 #202

It seems to explode when any criticism of the Senator is uttered. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2017 #214

This Thread Is Still Going? Me. Sep 2017 #244

Agreed ! left-of-center2012 Sep 2017 #301

:) sheshe2 Sep 2017 #303

Personally Me. Sep 2017 #305

I am cool with it. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #307

Bernie joined the Dems... Mike Nelson Sep 2017 #252

The Clinton's and Al Gore ran on progressive ideas way back a quarter of a century ago. R B Garr Sep 2017 #329

That's true, and... Mike Nelson Sep 2017 #331

Kick! sheshe2 Sep 2017 #302

I'll Join You Me. Sep 2017 #306

Thanks....Hey me...look what I found. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #308

Perfect Me. Sep 2017 #309

Thanks... sheshe2 Sep 2017 #310

Tomorrow.... Me. Sep 2017 #311

I guess that depends on our time zones. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #312

Well Then... Me. Sep 2017 #313

Me thinks a Will Pitt. sheshe2 Sep 2017 #314

Mornin' sheshe Me. Sep 2017 #319

Morning me! sheshe2 Sep 2017 #320

Well Lookee Here Me. Sep 2017 #321

Morning, me treestar Sep 2017 #325

That's A Good...Yes? Me. Sep 2017 #326

Yes. treestar Sep 2017 #328

! Me. Sep 2017 #330

Yes, this is a good use of EVERYONE"s time and effort! hatrack Sep 2017 #324

Because we need more than hardcore self-identified or registered Democrats to win...... vi5 Sep 2017 #327