General Discussion

bhikkhu

(10,711 posts)

35. Yes it is - nearly identical in organization and intent

Sat Jul 14, 2012, 03:41 PM

Jul 2012

...and isolationism is one way to keep the US jobless. We still make a lot of things here that are successfully exported, and a great many jobs depend on that. Job losses have two primary causes - technological advances (accounting for about 3/4 of manufacturing job losses), and crappy trade deals that encouraged imports but not exports.

Obama has a very good record on trade, and this one is designed to bolster US exports and employment. Trade itself is not the problem, and the meme that "we can't compete" is a RW slur that way too many people have bought into without really thinking it through.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

114 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Obama and Romney Both Backing Secret Job-killing Deal? Trans-Pacific Partnership lurks [View all] Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 OP

I see a lot of criticism about the TPP. Blanks Jul 2012 #1

There isn't anything secret about the TPP. The negotiation sessions are announced publicly RB TexLa Jul 2012 #2

Contents of potential agreement are under the radar because they know people will be outraged Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 #13

Of course the countries in a trade agreement are subject to an enforcement arm of the pact RB TexLa Jul 2012 #15

They were secret until a whistle-blower leaked them. That is when we found out about them. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #51

There is no agreement yet. It's negotiations. And there is no reason for them to be public RB TexLa Jul 2012 #61

Even the WTO releases draft negotiating texts Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 #62

Executive privilege. The president and his representatives have to be able to negotiate RB TexLa Jul 2012 #63

Corporate input every step of the way is OK though.... n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #101

There is every reason why trade agreements should be discussed openly by CONGRESS, NOT by foreign sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #94

No, Senator Levin's demand is outrageous. The congress will vote on the agreement. They do not RB TexLa Jul 2012 #95

Sen. Levin was absolutely correct to be outraged that foreign etities are busy writing laws for this sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #96

Congress will vote on the final agreement. The president and the executives of the other RB TexLa Jul 2012 #106

'You people'??? You mean Americans who think that Congress is our legislative body, you know, the sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #107

Treaties are also law of the land If the executives of those RB TexLa Jul 2012 #108

Congress was barred from knowing anything about this. If it had not been for a whistle-blower sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #109

Did you also agree with the congress when members said the Attorney General had to hand over RB TexLa Jul 2012 #110

The constitution says 'Advice and Consent'... PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #102

And they will do that when they vote RB TexLa Jul 2012 #105

Ask Senator Wyden. Subcomitee chair on trade. pa28 Jul 2012 #56

The negotiations aren't finished, once they are what will actually be in the agreement will be RB TexLa Jul 2012 #60

Are we just to assume it is "job killing" or at least, try to explain why treestar Jul 2012 #3

Can you name a "free" trade agreement that hasn't been job killing? MannyGoldstein Jul 2012 #6

That doesn't explain how treestar Jul 2012 #7

NAFTA: 700,000 US jobs destroyed (and counting) MannyGoldstein Jul 2012 #9

Page 3 we have now trade deficits with Mexico treestar Jul 2012 #18

LOL. "You say workers in both countries are WORSE off, while corporations are much richer?" Romulox Jul 2012 #21

How is it not possible is the better question. former9thward Jul 2012 #26

I was poking fun at the poster's (feigned?) incredulity. I agree with your title. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #27

Sorry, I missed the other poster. former9thward Jul 2012 #38

What incredulity? treestar Jul 2012 #67

Is this a joke? Nobody can educate you on basic economics, here. Nor is your lack of understanding Romulox Jul 2012 #69

But then you can't seem to explain it treestar Jul 2012 #73

You have proven to be a waste of time in the past. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #75

You still aren't making your argument. treestar Jul 2012 #77

Nonsense. I'm not going to bother to *disprove* your ill-informed argument; there's no point. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #81

Taxpayer subsidies is the biggest reason, but there are many. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #36

Excellent post. Romulox Jul 2012 #19

I'm still waking up, but this report does not seem to cover jobs created in Mexico amandabeech Jul 2012 #92

Sen. Obama said in 2008......... Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 #11

Did Obama ever explain why? treestar Jul 2012 #20

Don't be obtuse. amandabeech Jul 2012 #91

TPP has been referred to as NAFTA on steroids. Blanks Jul 2012 #22

Pretty simple JonLP24 Jul 2012 #65

If it is moved to Mexico presumably from the US and Canada treestar Jul 2012 #68

Reality, treestar: "Since NAFTA was enacted, U.S. manufacturing employment has fallen by 5 million" Romulox Jul 2012 #70

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc treestar Jul 2012 #72

This information is available to anyone who is even remotely curious. You haven't found it for a Romulox Jul 2012 #76

Then explain it treestar Jul 2012 #78

Nope. Won't be derailed by your ignorance. Make an effort to *READ THE LINKS ALREADY POSTED* to Romulox Jul 2012 #83

What would you do if you were in a real debate? treestar Jul 2012 #99

This is a MESSAGE BOARD. The way we communicate is through the written word. If you won't read, Romulox Jul 2012 #111

This is a PATHETIC way to try to derail, btw--the "feigned" ignorance as a debating tactic. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #112

I mean, there are detailed links *IN THIS VERY THREAD*, and you still pretend your ignorance of the Romulox Jul 2012 #79

Read the links in THIS THREAD yet, oh seeker of knowledge? Romulox Jul 2012 #98

how would we know, since the public & legislators are denied access that's given to corporations? HiPointDem Jul 2012 #33

By the time it gets to Congress it would have to be public treestar Jul 2012 #80

"by the time it gets to congress"... our government is negotiating terms *now*. why is it secret? HiPointDem Jul 2012 #88

Ever hear of the Patriot Act? westerebus Jul 2012 #89

This isn't just about 'job-killing'. It is way worse than that. Have you read what was sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #52

How is that going to come about without the ultimate agreement treestar Jul 2012 #82

Now it cannot. Had it not been for the whistle-blower no one would know about it. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #87

But how could it become law without going through the usual process? treestar Jul 2012 #100

The media will keep all the dirty details as secret as possible. Elwood P Dowd Jul 2012 #90

Gee. I remember when Democrats supported American workers. Octafish Jul 2012 #4

Gee, my job was shipped out of the country 10 years before NAFTA though NNN0LHI Jul 2012 #8

Sorry to read that. Octafish Jul 2012 #10

Our entire business landscape has changed. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #28

The automation wave is threatening the UMC now. Octafish Jul 2012 #40

Hilarious kenny blankenship Jul 2012 #46

Did America give up its sovereignty to affect these changes in the past? sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #54

Sorry about your job, but that is not the only issue regarding these 'agreements'. It is way more sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #53

I don't think that foreign corporations, or any corporations, should be planning our future, amandabeech Jul 2012 #93

+1 HiPointDem Jul 2012 #24

You're living in the past, citizen! kenny blankenship Jul 2012 #45

LOL! Octafish Jul 2012 #49

Not dry behind the ears yet. Bought gas at 17 cents a gallon. Then it went to 19. Kids these days! freshwest Jul 2012 #103

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #5

We already have trade with the trans-pacific nations bhikkhu Jul 2012 #12

One item leaked... Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 #14

This is similar to what the WTO "trade court", arbiter of trade disputes bhikkhu Jul 2012 #16

The WTO Trade court is an arbiter of trade disputes between member countries... Teamster Jeff Jul 2012 #17

Many other countries (e.g. Japan, South Korea, China) have active partnerships between gov't and Romulox Jul 2012 #23

no, it's not. and there are fewer jobs in the us today than on the day bush took office. HiPointDem Jul 2012 #25

Yes it is - nearly identical in organization and intent bhikkhu Jul 2012 #35

jobs created during us presidential terms: HiPointDem Jul 2012 #37

"free trade" is crap bhikkhu Jul 2012 #39

'regulated' for the benefit of the biggest boys on the block. also crap. 'regulated' for the HiPointDem Jul 2012 #41

That's assuming Obama is a RW corporate shill bhikkhu Jul 2012 #42

Assuming nothing about Obama personally, but about the system. HiPointDem Jul 2012 #43

Ok, assuming then that Obama is incapable of constructing a good trade agreement bhikkhu Jul 2012 #47

i disagree that obama constructed the agreement. i am 4th generation pnw. trade has always HiPointDem Jul 2012 #48

So we agree that trade is not the problem bhikkhu Jul 2012 #50

Thank you, I've been reading the comments here and it seems to me that a few people defending sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #55

Our law cannot be overruled that way treestar Jul 2012 #86

Thanks.. guess I'm going to go vote for Ron Paul now. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #29

We live in a "democracy". Maybe we can stop this? Romulox Jul 2012 #31

The Rule of Law is always a good place to turn to when corruption rears its ugly head. sabrina 1 Jul 2012 #59

Yeah, ProSense Jul 2012 #30

You seem to see politics as lining up behind Team A or Team B. Many of us want to PLAY for a team. Romulox Jul 2012 #32

No ProSense Jul 2012 #34

Of course there is "evidence to suggest that Obama would support a deal that would lead to jobs" Romulox Jul 2012 #44

So you will soon be starting a Group here on DU called 2016 Progressive Prez, right? JoePhilly Jul 2012 #58

YOU sure as shooting haven't kept your mouth shut these past 4 years. Why should I? Romulox Jul 2012 #66

Didn't tell you to keep your mouth shut. Suggested some one like you start JoePhilly Jul 2012 #71

I haven't relented on this issue since before 2008. Don't dictate my priorities to me. nt Romulox Jul 2012 #84

Why does advice from your corner always-- ALWAYS boil down to "shut-up while our guy is in office"? Marr Jul 2012 #85

If domestic corporations are people I guess foreign corporations are too. pa28 Jul 2012 #57

Take a look at what happens when we do a "free trade" deal..... Cronkite Jul 2012 #64

Not dimes bit of difference. Hotler Jul 2012 #74

Why TPP will not blunt Bain attacks. hay rick Jul 2012 #97

Can you spell "collusion"? woo me with science Jul 2012 #104

Yeah. ananda Jul 2012 #113

Kick. nt woo me with science Jul 2012 #114