Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Opinions on "Antifa"? [View all]countryjake
(8,554 posts)112. When you brag that womens marches were nonviolent
When You Brag That The Womens Marches Were Nonviolent ~ by Ijeoma Oluo ~
https://theestablishment.co/when-you-brag-that-the-womens-marches-were-nonviolent-b042133ae2bb
When you brag that your protests had no arrests, I wonder what you think that says about you.
When you say that your protests were peaceful, I wonder how much credit you are taking for that.
When you take pictures with smiling cops and thank them for protecting you, I wonder, who are you marching for?
When you say that your protests were nonviolent, I wonder, how do you define violence?
Is it a brick?
Is it a rock?
Is it a baton?
Is it pepper spray?
Is it a firehose?
Is it a police dog?
Or is it poisoned water?
Is it a school suspension?
Is it mass incarceration?
Is it grinding poverty?
Is it that random airport security check?
Is it yet another traffic stop?
Is it the toy gun in that kids hand?
Is it that stop and frisk?
Or is it the thought that you could march a million white women down the street without fear and high five the same cops who wouldnt hesitate to pepper spray black and brown faces begging for nothing less than their lives and then call it progress?
https://theestablishment.co/when-you-brag-that-the-womens-marches-were-nonviolent-b042133ae2bb
When you brag that your protests had no arrests, I wonder what you think that says about you.
When you say that your protests were peaceful, I wonder how much credit you are taking for that.
When you take pictures with smiling cops and thank them for protecting you, I wonder, who are you marching for?
When you say that your protests were nonviolent, I wonder, how do you define violence?
Is it a brick?
Is it a rock?
Is it a baton?
Is it pepper spray?
Is it a firehose?
Is it a police dog?
Or is it poisoned water?
Is it a school suspension?
Is it mass incarceration?
Is it grinding poverty?
Is it that random airport security check?
Is it yet another traffic stop?
Is it the toy gun in that kids hand?
Is it that stop and frisk?
Or is it the thought that you could march a million white women down the street without fear and high five the same cops who wouldnt hesitate to pepper spray black and brown faces begging for nothing less than their lives and then call it progress?
White People, Its Time To Prioritize Justice Over Civility ~ by Tauriq Moosa ~
https://theestablishment.co/white-people-its-time-to-prioritize-justice-over-civility-bfd90b80012e
The 'Punch a Nazi' meme: What are the Ethics of Punching Nazis? ~ by Tauriq Moosa ~
https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2017/jan/31/the-punch-a-nazi-meme-what-are-the-ethics-of-punching-nazis
~ snip ~
The White Moderate criticism
Critics, particularly some white people, have opted for other, less reasonable responses. The problem is, for many white people, civility is the status quo. They might oppose racism, but they feel no shame in calling out the actions of activists. Unfortunately, the status quo in many Western societies is a system that still harms people of colour. Any action for justice will, by definition, be disruptive. It is this very order, the status quo itself, which makes life difficult for people of colour but not for most white people.
People of colour are saying: instead of society being difficult for us, lets make it difficult for Nazis. Lets make genocidal beliefs unwelcome. As Dr King put it, the white moderates call for civility in the face of injustice is a massive stumbling block. Such a person prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice.
For some white people theres nothing to disrupt. For the rest of us, there is.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2017/jan/31/the-punch-a-nazi-meme-what-are-the-ethics-of-punching-nazis
~ snip ~
The White Moderate criticism
Critics, particularly some white people, have opted for other, less reasonable responses. The problem is, for many white people, civility is the status quo. They might oppose racism, but they feel no shame in calling out the actions of activists. Unfortunately, the status quo in many Western societies is a system that still harms people of colour. Any action for justice will, by definition, be disruptive. It is this very order, the status quo itself, which makes life difficult for people of colour but not for most white people.
People of colour are saying: instead of society being difficult for us, lets make it difficult for Nazis. Lets make genocidal beliefs unwelcome. As Dr King put it, the white moderates call for civility in the face of injustice is a massive stumbling block. Such a person prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice.
For some white people theres nothing to disrupt. For the rest of us, there is.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
194 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
lots to read about it here as well - not saying it is accurate, but it is info.
NRaleighLiberal
Aug 2017
#2
I am in favor of all antifa who are nonviolent. Which is probably most of them. Nt
LostOne4Ever
Aug 2017
#8
Anyone who shows up to rallies to stir shit up, start fights, and destroy property....
Initech
Aug 2017
#10
I saw less destruction of property in Charlottesville than in other protests...
AntiFascist
Aug 2017
#175
Time for Democratic leaders to speak up about not being supportive of any group using vilence.
haveahart
Aug 2017
#12
The antifa represent a wide range of political beliefs, all united against fascism.
Coventina
Aug 2017
#101
Seattle is a liberal city and however loosely you want to associate them with other groups or not,
LisaM
Aug 2017
#104
Well, all I can say is that your experience with them is vastly different from mine.
Coventina
Aug 2017
#106
I'm glad if you have an experience of Antifa as a peace-loving and positive force.
LisaM
Aug 2017
#108
Is this the new way to label anarchists? I mean the big A ones who show up to
uppityperson
Aug 2017
#16
I didn't actually say that, I said that they walked by people trying to disrupt the march.
LisaM
Aug 2017
#115
Don't feed the Nazi Trolls the violence they want to create. Don't compromise about Nazis.
L. Coyote
Aug 2017
#21
You've stated that you "thank them" so they will come to your aid when the violence they seek...
Expecting Rain
Aug 2017
#23
Antifa has an established identity here too. It is an embrage of violence.
Expecting Rain
Aug 2017
#29
They are not anti-liberals - things are not black and white as you see them
womanofthehills
Aug 2017
#169
You lose the moral high ground when you support people who use the same violent tactics
Expecting Rain
Aug 2017
#31
I could care less about "moral high ground." I care about personal integrity.
David__77
Aug 2017
#36
It's very easy to condemn the antifa when you aren't an obvious target of fascists.
Coventina
Aug 2017
#39
I'm thinking back to high school when a white supremacist/anti-gay fascist threatened me.
David__77
Aug 2017
#53
So antifa plow cars into people and hang people and support ... wtf are you saying here? thx
uponit7771
Aug 2017
#136
you also lose the moral high ground when you make broad brush statements and false equivalencies
fishwax
Aug 2017
#148
It would be naive or disingenuous to suggest Antifa's concept of "direct action"
Expecting Rain
Aug 2017
#164
No, I'm intimately familiar with these people and know many of the locals by sight...
Expecting Rain
Aug 2017
#181
False dichotomy between doing nothing and feeding the Nazis the street violence they crave.
Expecting Rain
Aug 2017
#182
This is one of the best threads I have see. Pretty respectful on a difficult topic.
pangaia
Aug 2017
#150
Ah, we all stumble and fall, do we not. So it's the journey that is important...
pangaia
Aug 2017
#153
I fear that people who cover their faces are making things easy for false flag mischief... .n/t
annabanana
Aug 2017
#188
as we have seen here on du there are some(many?) folks to the left of the party
dembotoz
Aug 2017
#48
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Nazis/KKK/alt.right types are my enemies.
Glorfindel
Aug 2017
#54
No, MLK never advocated just be killed by terrorist. We're not supposed to INITIATE or EXACERBATE
uponit7771
Aug 2017
#139
Saw this on #OurResistance; non violence is cowardice?????; I disagree of course
Not Ruth
Aug 2017
#116
That's black block ... they're mixing up the groups in the article along with DAA. Antifa
uponit7771
Aug 2017
#140
interesting enough by your username President Obama would disagree with you 100%
snooper2
Aug 2017
#99
you might be right, but I still think whether to be aggressive with violence is a complex matter
beachjustice
Aug 2017
#189
State monopoly on violence is one of the Enlightenment values and Westphalian order
AngryAmish
Aug 2017
#82
The Nazis were the ones who got the permit -- they are who was looking for violence
obamanut2012
Aug 2017
#110
They are too militant from what I've seen. We should not get caught up in that.
phleshdef
Aug 2017
#97
I'm sure all the Sensible Centrists will be along to provide us with the correct opinion.....
vi5
Aug 2017
#137
They are heroes defending this nation - for which we should all be very grateful!
ElementaryPenguin
Aug 2017
#145
They provide a conduit for Agents Provacateurs. Even if they are sincere in their anti-fascist
yodermon
Aug 2017
#146
I get upset sometimes. But is a society, the best response to mob violence is nonviolence.
Blue_true
Aug 2017
#155