General Discussion

lapucelle

(18,229 posts)

229. Not only did I read the article,

Thu Jun 29, 2017, 03:14 PM

Jun 2017

I remember watching the event as it happened. The complaint was that the extra time needed for the reading of the amendment would delay the holiday recess. The fiery independent champion of the people acquiesced, withdrew his amendment, took a pragmatic approach and voted "yes" on a bill that he would later repudiate, and returned home for a well-deserved extended break from the business of the people.

I get it. It's different when some people do it. That's why it's called a double standard.

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Bernie Sanders extremely disappointed by stalling of Californias single-payer health care bill [View all] Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 OP

Well, Vermont couldn't pass it either...... nm MichMan Jun 2017 #1

They passed it and repealed it. RandySF Jun 2017 #3

Apparently it never passed: George II Jun 2017 #106

VT's population is only 626,000. Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #4

They need to learn from Vermont's failure. ehrnst Jun 2017 #183

With all due respect, he should read the paper. RandySF Jun 2017 #2

Oh I know...all those other countries having single-payer.... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #5

Then write the legislation yourself RandySF Jun 2017 #6

There are already bills to do that... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #7

Okay, here's the situation... haele Jun 2017 #77

No, chances are it hasn't as the prior response to you indicates. stevenleser Jun 2017 #162

HR-676.... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #163

Which I supported and know well, doesn't have a realistic transition plan stevenleser Jun 2017 #164

I agree with you, but the higher taxes needed for single payer especially at the state Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #65

Can you list "all those other countries having single payer?" ehrnst Jun 2017 #184

Including all of the uncertainty of the Federal gov't proposals... Wounded Bear Jun 2017 #8

That is actually the reason he put it on hold until we know what happens in congress still_one Jun 2017 #32

Good point. Thanks. Eom pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #20

So Professor Pollin is full of it? SHRED Jun 2017 #54

Where does said poster disagree with Professor Pollin? nt. NCTraveler Jun 2017 #82

Yes, reality is important to consider, and Bernie R B Garr Jun 2017 #61

Yes, there were sensible and logical reasons why proceeding would have been a mistake. But... George II Jun 2017 #108

Just charge everyone in the state 10% or something madville Jun 2017 #134

California has 40 million residents. That's a lot to cover with no federal help. demosincebirth Jun 2017 #153

It's the sixth largest economy in the world, ffs. killbotfactory Jun 2017 #166

California isn't it's own country. a lot of California money goes to support the entire nation JI7 Jun 2017 #206

You're right, but you forgot republicans. demosincebirth Jun 2017 #208

Especially since they were proposing to transfer Medicare and Medicaid to help fund it. ehrnst Jun 2017 #185

It's too important. We have to get it right. chowder66 Jun 2017 #9

Canada's single payer started in just one providence... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #10

Exactly and that's why we need to get it right. : ) nt chowder66 Jun 2017 #18

If you're talking about Saskatchewan, at the time it was passed they were covering only.... George II Jun 2017 #118

And didn't go federal until all the provinces did so independently - which took from '47 to '61.. ehrnst Jun 2017 #186

Exactly. If it isn't done right it will give republicans more ammunition for why it won't work. George II Jun 2017 #111

Unfortunately, Senator Sanders' hopes are not supported MineralMan Jun 2017 #11

Do you live in California? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #12

I lived most of my life in California, up until 2004, when my wife MineralMan Jun 2017 #13

But, all those other countries implemented single payer... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #14

Do you know the history of the healthcare plans MineralMan Jun 2017 #15

You have no clue as to what I know or not know... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #16

I asked you if you knew. MineralMan Jun 2017 #17

Do you know the history? George II Jun 2017 #119

It depends on who you mean when you say "progressive liberal democrats" ehrnst Jun 2017 #197

Not that many - the vast majority have multi-payer systems to achieve universal health care ehrnst Jun 2017 #182

Sen. Sanders is highly regarded CountAllVotes Jun 2017 #38

Perhaps he knows more about the Pacific Northwest than he does about VT ehrnst Jun 2017 #188

I live in California and disagree... Expecting Rain Jun 2017 #46

Are you saying that Sanders caused Zimmer to lose? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #50

You mean like how so many think Pelosi caused Ossoff to lose? Wounded Bear Jun 2017 #69

Sanders' endorsement doesn't seem to be leading to many victories ehrnst Jun 2017 #198

I live in California. hunter Jun 2017 #47

Agreed. I live in CA as well. The single payer legislation cannot succeed stopbush Jun 2017 #59

Thank you for sparing me the writer's cramp. nocalflea Jun 2017 #155

Yep, taking Medicare and Medicaid won't be a simple task, especially ehrnst Jun 2017 #194

He has lost quite a bit of his luster to "liberal" Californians... Crash2Parties Jun 2017 #53

+1 Starry Messenger Jun 2017 #121

I heard something about that loss. ehrnst Jun 2017 #199

it's still not his state treestar Jun 2017 #80

On what do you base that? Among how many people? George II Jun 2017 #112

There is this thing called the internet, and telephones. ehrnst Jun 2017 #189

Yes, very unfortunately, because single payer is what we need. nt JCanete Jun 2017 #84

He didn't help Vermont any. Eom pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #19

Is that something to celebrate? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #21

No, he's pointing out that Bernie is all talk and no action. RandySF Jun 2017 #22

All talk and no action? wow..... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #24

"Which one of his legislative accomplishments are you the most proud of?" You were recently asked lunamagica Jun 2017 #57

*Crickets* lunamagica Jun 2017 #63

I have plenty to say on that, if its fucking relevant. What is relevant is that Single Payer is the JCanete Jun 2017 #86

This is a discussion board. No matter how much profanity you use, you don't get to dictate what lunamagica Jun 2017 #105

it's not germane to a discussion of whether or not we should have single payer. Its harping on how JCanete Jun 2017 #107

So, aftet all, you didn't have "plenty to say" about his legislative accomplishments lunamagica Jun 2017 #115

address what I've said, which actually applies to the OP, and I'll address your BS JCanete Jun 2017 #117

No, you said you have plenty to say. When I asked you to proceed, all you give did was lunamagica Jun 2017 #124

even in my original post I was clear that I wasn't going to get off topic and go into it, because, JCanete Jun 2017 #126

lol, OK you win. The question is relevant because Sanders is an expert in pointing fingers and lunamagica Jun 2017 #143

yes, and thank you. I promise to respond to this when I have the energy. Just got off work. nt JCanete Jun 2017 #150

This is a fact based community GulfCoast66 Jun 2017 #58

*Crickets* lunamagica Jun 2017 #64

Bernie isn't protected by the "don't criticize Dems" rule... Wounded Bear Jun 2017 #70

TOS: Political Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #71

When Bernie actually joins the party... Wounded Bear Jun 2017 #72

Did you read the TOS? Obviously not... Try again... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #73

LOL!!! Wounded Bear Jun 2017 #74

Please point to the "disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks" in this emulatorloo Jun 2017 #109

That says don't BASH Democratic public figures, not don't criticize Democratic public figures. George II Jun 2017 #158

Understanding the difference between "bash" and "criticize" is key. ehrnst Jun 2017 #200

Skinner disagrees. QC Jun 2017 #133

TOS says explicitly he is. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #157

the hatred for Sanders here is stunning. Voltaire2 Jun 2017 #156

I think it is more that Democrats are going to stand up and speak out against his insults pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #165

I find it interesting that actual factual critiques of his about faces ehrnst Jun 2017 #180

What action can Bernie take in California? He won't even talk about Vermont's failed attempt. (nt) ehrnst Jun 2017 #195

Maybe you should go read the rules where it is clearly spelled out that attacking Sanders is not ok Kentonio Jun 2017 #207

Sanders says he is not a liberal. Progressive, yes. But, not a liberal, or Democrat. pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #209

The rule very specifically says that attacking Sanders is not ok. Kentonio Jun 2017 #211

Explain to me please, how Sanders is allowed to attack the Democratic Party and pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #212

How about you look at the bigger picture? Kentonio Jun 2017 #214

Promoting "both parties are the same" is a lie. Why wouldn't I challenge a lie? Eom pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #215

Yes, I'm sure the guy who votes 98% Democrat Kentonio Jun 2017 #216

It is his words. He has been saying it for decades. I listen to what a person says. pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #217

Sure you do. Screw the context, ignore the qualifiers Kentonio Jun 2017 #218

No, stating both parties are the same simply is not factual, nor condusive for the good of the whole pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #219

You can think what you like, it's a free country Kentonio Jun 2017 #220

Sanders words said repeatedly. Please, do not call me a liar when the facts prove otherwise. Eom pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #221

If I take a random part of a speech or interview and use it as attack line Kentonio Jun 2017 #222

The facts speak for themselves. It is out there. Others will interpret as they will. Eom pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #223

Yes, and I'll make sure that people who try and present only a small part of the picture Kentonio Jun 2017 #224

You are gonna do what you need to do. Eom pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #225

I'm sure you'll hold Sanders himself to this standard. He has misrepresented R B Garr Jun 2017 #226

Celebrate? Point made. I would like to see him go beyond talk. Eom pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #39

What would you have him do? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #41

The same he is demanding every Democrat, and then bashing when not done to his satisfaction. pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #44

Is Sanders in the VT State government? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #45

2010, he campaigned for it. pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #55

Pass. The. Buck. NCTraveler Jun 2017 #89

But he is totally an authority when it comes to California legislation? Why? ehrnst Jun 2017 #178

Then refused to answer any questions about any lessons learned from it. ehrnst Jun 2017 #168

True. pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #169

That would be admitting that there are shades of grey, wouldn't it? (nt) ehrnst Jun 2017 #177

Well, true that, too. Eom. pirateshipdude Jun 2017 #187

He could talk about lessons learned from Vermont's failure, instead of getting irritated at ehrnst Jun 2017 #196

No, but he should start small and local and try to get it passed in his OWN state.... George II Jun 2017 #120

Go attack that straw man. (nt) ehrnst Jun 2017 #190

Until we get Doctors to accept $50,000 Motownman78 Jun 2017 #23

Who says doctors must work for $50k? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #25

In order to get the cost of care down Motownman78 Jun 2017 #26

Don't punish labor leftstreet Jun 2017 #28

Doctors only get to charge Motownman78 Jun 2017 #31

Removing the criminal health insurance bloodsuckers would save $500 billion/year... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #29

Not quite enough Motownman78 Jun 2017 #34

Well, all it takes is the will of the people to put in statespersons to... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #37

"Well, all it takes is the will of the people to put in statespersons to..." LuvLoogie Jun 2017 #40

Are you against single-payer? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #43

Nope. And neither is Anthony Rendon. LuvLoogie Jun 2017 #48

So why didn't it work in Vermont, if "will" is all it takes? ehrnst Jun 2017 #203

Like Sanders, you fail to present an honest assessment of health costs. stopbush Jun 2017 #60

Aren't You Excluding The Cost of The Existing Premium. . . ProfessorGAC Jun 2017 #160

Well, you're wrong on a huge point, stopbush Jun 2017 #161

Well, I Pay For Part of Mine ProfessorGAC Jun 2017 #210

They are already coming for Medicaid at a rapid pace with their bill. sheshe2 Jun 2017 #114

Well, if it's that simple, why couldn't it work in Vermont? (nt) ehrnst Jun 2017 #192

There have been programs like that before, very few docs take advantage of it. Hoyt Jun 2017 #33

Yup, and $200K a year is what Motownman78 Jun 2017 #35

Even worse are hospitals, drug companies, etc. Single payer countries say No to suppliers Hoyt Jun 2017 #42

Isn't that kinda like rationing healthcare? dumbcat Jun 2017 #98

What the GOPers are doing now is rationing. If you want an affordable system, it is Hoyt Jun 2017 #100

There are very few single payer programs in existence. ehrnst Jun 2017 #193

What is your plan for funding, since you have it figured out? ehrnst Jun 2017 #191

This is interesting Motownman78 Jun 2017 #36

Nurses make more than that now Revanchist Jun 2017 #62

And they deserve it! greatauntoftriplets Jun 2017 #135

Pigs will fly first....doctors spend tons of money in order to become doctors...it is a 10-12 year Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #66

THIS +oo !!!! How in the hell do people NOT understand this along with hospital groups and pharma!? YCHDT Jun 2017 #174

I would ask companies Motownman78 Jun 2017 #27

The best idea would be some sort of payroll healthcare contribution tax...like Social Security and.. Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #30

And what mechanism would you use to force people to join? What about Medicaid? Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #67

For every objection to single-payer, snot Jun 2017 #49

Funny how the truth stands out... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #51

These countries are not even close to our country in ideology or population. Demsrule86 Jun 2017 #68

Doesn't San Francisco have single payer? MattP Jun 2017 #52

Is he running for governor of CA? geek tragedy Jun 2017 #56

We should have passed it. We should all be pissed that it didn't. Why aren't you? nt JCanete Jun 2017 #87

Because it's not my taxes they'd be doubling to pay for it geek tragedy Jun 2017 #96

He should get the facts before he spouts his crap. nini Jun 2017 #75

Exactly, he's not even addressing the real issues and reasons for this R B Garr Jun 2017 #76

I guess we should look at all his successful bills to learn from nini Jun 2017 #78

Right again, that's why this is just more grandstanding from R B Garr Jun 2017 #159

What you're saying remains to be seen. I'd rather we keep the pressure on. nt JCanete Jun 2017 #88

Did I say not to keep working on it? nini Jun 2017 #91

We have a long history of things just getting tabled and the focus moving on to other things. JCanete Jun 2017 #93

Nancy Pelosi Rejects Single Payer Being Added to Democratic Party Platform LWolf Jun 2017 #79

Well, that's NOT a good thing... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #83

So has Feinstein. This is a fucking problem. I don't know why people think everything is fine JCanete Jun 2017 #116

That is a good thing. Most other developed nations have multi-payer universal health care ehrnst Jun 2017 #201

Medical professionals. LWolf Jul 2017 #232

Medical professionals are not health policy analysts. ehrnst Jul 2017 #233

If Bernie couldn't compel VERMONT to introduce Single Player... brooklynite Jun 2017 #81

Are you against single payer??????? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #85

No, but I recognize the futility of beating people up when they're unable to implement it... brooklynite Jun 2017 #90

Sanders did not beat people up as you wrote... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #92

But he's not... brooklynite Jun 2017 #94

How do you know that he isn't reaching other people? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #95

Well, polling has shown shifts in support of ACA, but no appreciable shift in Single Payer...; brooklynite Jun 2017 #97

Pew Research June 23,2017 says differently... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #99

"Overall, 33% of the public now favors such a single payer approach to health insurance" George II Jun 2017 #137

Reading comprehension OR deception...? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #139

Okay, I missed that, but still 12% in three years to 33% from 22% is not... George II Jun 2017 #140

Here is something else you missed in the article excerpt I posted in my post: Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #141

But that is irrelevant to the discussion - that's not "single payer", I'm surprised it's not higher. George II Jun 2017 #142

Sanders refused to discuss VT single payer ehrnst Jul 2017 #234

It's not the only way to universal health care - most other countries have multi-payer. ehrnst Jun 2017 #202

I don't know how many times I've pointed that out over the months. He can't get it done... George II Jun 2017 #138

So true !!! YCHDT Jun 2017 #175

It is complicated but I hope they try in the future. hrmjustin Jun 2017 #101

You're correct. It's an ineffective strategy that leaves himself open to ridicule and mocking... NurseJackie Jun 2017 #171

Who? LexVegas Jun 2017 #102

You know, Senator Sanders - the most popular Senator and one of a very few... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #103

.... LexVegas Jun 2017 #104

Just a heads up. emulatorloo Jun 2017 #113

Most popular in his own state of Vermont. George II Jun 2017 #136

That one guy DU specifically bans you from insulting Nevernose Jun 2017 #149

Unfortunately Sanders failed to read the reasons for the delay. George II Jun 2017 #110

do you know whether or not he did? From a brief search, it looks like he put in some effort. JCanete Jun 2017 #122

If he was familiar with why it stalled perhaps he wouldn't be as "extremely disappointed"? George II Jun 2017 #123

fucked up the order and already fixed it. ...the brain sometimes... JCanete Jun 2017 #125

Simple why it can't be done yet - FUNDING! George II Jun 2017 #128

that's a legislative issue. What's the hold-up? Who is being appeased? nt JCanete Jun 2017 #129

We're crossing each other in our edits! Funny. George II Jun 2017 #131

and what do you think people pay for health insurance in california? nt JCanete Jun 2017 #132

I read an opinion this morning that some horse-trading went on because of the new gas tax Starry Messenger Jun 2017 #127

Stay out of California Bernie GotHillsback Jun 2017 #130

that's confident. We have a lot of disfunctional shit in this state, even though our Democrats JCanete Jun 2017 #151

I would like Bernie to RandySF Jun 2017 #144

Is this a case of 'shoot the messenger'? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #145

No. RandySF Jun 2017 #146

Interesting..."Present what he's accomplished vs California Democrats side-by-side." Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #147

It is interesting because it is a fact Chevy Jun 2017 #154

+1000. (nt) ehrnst Jun 2017 #181

Asking him to talk about what happened in Vermont in order to learn from it is "shooting" him? ehrnst Jun 2017 #204

How odd he's so concerned with this BainsBane Jun 2017 #148

Yeah, suddenly the expert on California, but gets defensive when asked about his home state. ehrnst Jun 2017 #179

As a Californian I appreciate his words. David__77 Jun 2017 #152

Time for Bernie to get another primetime interview Blue_Tires Jun 2017 #167

And actually answers questions that indicate that he actually learns from history ehrnst Jun 2017 #176

When he is a California resident, he'll have a say. ehrnst Jun 2017 #170

I live in CA and I welcome his input and his support. Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #172

Actually, it's not the way most of the rest of the developed world ehrnst Jun 2017 #173

The worst thing that can happen is you don't have all your ducks lined up so to speak still_one Jun 2017 #205

Like the Donald said, "Healthcare is complicated".. disillusioned73 Jun 2017 #213

People were disappointed in 2009 as well. lapucelle Jun 2017 #227

You did read the article you cited - right? Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #228

Not only did I read the article, lapucelle Jun 2017 #229

It's called nuance... Trial_By_Fire Jun 2017 #230

You mean like employing lapucelle Jun 2017 #231