Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
25. Deliberations with whom?
Fri May 12, 2017, 10:31 AM
May 2017

The President is the Commander In Chief.

Our system is expressly designed to place ultimate authority over military action in the hands of a civilian.

Limitations such as the War Powers Act, etc., give the president a free hand in initiating military action. These limitations were intended not to bog us down in an unwanted foreign adventure for a prolonged period, but certainly do not limit the president's discretion to act in what he or she alone perceives as an imminent threat or action.

The absence of deliberations is itself part of the deterrence doctrine. With deliberations of defined parties, there can be a decapitation attack in which communications or individuals in the chain are disrupted, and command and control is taken out. From the match that lights the fuse to the black box, the system is designed to be an ultra reliable and secure method to vest that power in one pair of tiny hands.

Yes jberryhill May 2017 #1
This isn't a rhetorical question. Are you sure? DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #4
The answer is yes. Act_of_Reparation May 2017 #8
I would tell you what you can do with your ad hominem attack but I don't want a hide. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #13
You apparently don't know what an ad hominem is, either. Act_of_Reparation May 2017 #18
I know what a rhetorical question, an ad hominem attack, and a pedant is. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #29
I pretend people who disagree with me do so because they have no idea as well. LanternWaste May 2017 #123
Wow. That's fascinating. Act_of_Reparation May 2017 #161
The military would not be in the position of determining if THIS PARTICULAR ORDER was unlawful. It WinkyDink May 2017 #12
When was the last time some civilian authority decided a politician's military order was unlawful? yurbud May 2017 #132
Are you joking? jberryhill May 2017 #20
Then why did Defense Secretary Schlesinger and Secretary Of State Kissinger place ... DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #32
Your question did not ask, "IF the SoD and the SoS put limitations......" In any case, they acted WinkyDink May 2017 #54
You could have asked me to elaborate. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #57
Sorry; you have something to say, express it as well as you can. WinkyDink May 2017 #60
I gave my audience the respect of believing they were capable of drawing logical inferences... DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #64
Really? Because, as you've learned, your implications are insufficient for intelligent inferences. WinkyDink May 2017 #67
The verbal portion of the SAT and GRE must have been really hard on some people. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #78
You don't want to go there, I assure you. WinkyDink May 2017 #80
Throw the corn in the water and you never know what bites DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #91
LOL!! Coventina May 2017 #98
:-) I used to begin the year with asking the students if they could figure out this bit of OE: WinkyDink May 2017 #100
That is cool!!!! Coventina May 2017 #110
It is profoundly saddening you would join in insulting someone who has been unfailingly civil to you DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #128
I apologize. I didn't mean to be piling on you. Coventina May 2017 #133
Thank you for your kind response. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #135
.. Coventina May 2017 #136
How does this end? DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #137
I wish I knew. My fear is that too many Americans either don't care or don't truly understand Coventina May 2017 #138
In normal times most folks don't think about politics. They just get on with their lives. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #139
Agreed. And, I don't think most folk have grasped just how bad the situation is. Coventina May 2017 #140
This would make a great subject for an OP! You buried the lede in the comments though. bettyellen May 2017 #142
Yes after praying to Jesus Christ DBoon May 2017 #88
No get the red out May 2017 #2
No IronLionZion May 2017 #3
So, at some point, do we have a coup? jberryhill May 2017 #46
If we are going to get there we might as well get there soon thus leaving more time to repair... DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #49
Which person on the submarine do you suppose will do that? jberryhill May 2017 #53
I understand all these caveats and that theoretically the president's powers in this area is ... DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #61
The President's abso;ute power here is not theoretical; it is, in fact, ABSOLUTE. IT'S A SIMPLE WinkyDink May 2017 #68
The entire military structure, and ESPECIALLY the nuclear aspect, is built around NOT questioning. Coventina May 2017 #70
I believe they have added a step or two. AtheistCrusader May 2017 #76
Good to know! Thanks! Coventina May 2017 #79
It's a matter of the POTUS's having the codes. PERIOD. WinkyDink May 2017 #82
Trust me, I get it. Coventina May 2017 #87
That's what I understand. defacto7 May 2017 #159
Yes, but there are still pre-set attack plans which the president calls like football plays jberryhill May 2017 #160
Have you discussed this with the Military Leadership personally? frankieallen May 2017 #126
I also thought Trump would lose the election in a historic landslide IronLionZion May 2017 #141
Perhaps one MFM008 May 2017 #5
I'm voting NO Goodheart May 2017 #6
I truly hope we do not have to learn the answer to that. MineralMan May 2017 #7
That's true treestar May 2017 #106
Yes. It is what they are trained to do. Would you prefer the military question the order, while WinkyDink May 2017 #9
Nice strawman. The assertion embodied in my question is the attack is out of the blue. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #52
Someone predicted Trump will start a war tomorrow. liberalmuse May 2017 #10
I think that's possible as a deflection, because we are not dealing with a sane individual. n/t RKP5637 May 2017 #30
After having visited the Titan Missile Museum in Tucson, I say yes. Coventina May 2017 #11
Exactly. This isn't some Tom Cruise movie we're living in. Don't kid yourself! Correct code? LAUNCH. WinkyDink May 2017 #14
Yep. Any discussion / debate takes place before the order is given. Coventina May 2017 #15
I was told they would follow the orders because the system was designed for "speed and accuracy." DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #17
I know a guy who was a navy nuclear launch officer jberryhill May 2017 #21
You don't think they would make an exception considering the fact that Trump is clearly a madman? smirkymonkey May 2017 #26
No jberryhill May 2017 #28
That ain't the way. Sorry. WinkyDink May 2017 #33
For much of the first part of Trump's 111 days in office AtheistCrusader May 2017 #72
Who would discuss this before he entered the codes? Could he be just alone one night and RKP5637 May 2017 #35
Well, that's the point jberryhill May 2017 #44
My gut feeling, right or wrong, is this is just going to get more deranged relative to him RKP5637 May 2017 #55
" It's far too much power in one person's hands. " jberryhill May 2017 #58
it's been our way FOR MANY DECADES. WinkyDink May 2017 #63
Deliberations with whom? jberryhill May 2017 #25
Deliberations were implied in Post 15 DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #37
It would be up to Trump's inner circle to dissuade him from issuing the launch codes. Coventina May 2017 #47
"I am being told..." by whom? The deliberations are within the OO. "Out of the blue" is NOT FOR THE WinkyDink May 2017 #36
I was told in Post 15 there would be deliberations pursuant to the order. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #39
You misread. The word used is "before," not the term "pursuant to." As in, the POTUS and advisors WinkyDink May 2017 #41
The assertion embodied in my question it the attack is out of the blue. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #45
Yes, if the launch code targeting any of those countries were issued, it would be done. Coventina May 2017 #48
But again you miss the point jberryhill May 2017 #50
Some small percentage will fail to launch. AtheistCrusader May 2017 #62
That's my understanding as well jberryhill May 2017 #115
OMG. It wouldn't be "out of the blue" TO THE POTUS, FGS!! HE COULD DELIBERATE. Are you being WinkyDink May 2017 #65
What's your point? DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #75
They would flatten Madagascar if so ordered. AtheistCrusader May 2017 #85
"It seems people have somewhat forgotten this terrible power exists." jberryhill May 2017 #116
I think the post-soviet-collapse euphoria may have obscured some realities. AtheistCrusader May 2017 #118
Wel, yeah... jberryhill May 2017 #125
That should be changed treestar May 2017 #71
Correct Cosmocat May 2017 #24
I agree workinclasszero May 2017 #51
At this point, no. He's clearly insane. Blaukraut May 2017 #16
Were you ever in the US Military? WinkyDink May 2017 #38
My husband served 22 years in the AF and is now a GS 12 at Hanscom, so kinda? Blaukraut May 2017 #43
Do you think he ever once seriously considered disobeying an order? For one single second? WinkyDink May 2017 #92
This particular disobedience would have been way above his pay grade Blaukraut May 2017 #95
See Post #77. SoD CANNOT VETO. WinkyDink May 2017 #99
Thank the both of you for your service to our country. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #102
No thanks necessary. Blaukraut May 2017 #105
I have friends that are career military and career military spouses. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #107
This is true Blaukraut May 2017 #111
He passed away. He was African American. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #113
He sounds like a wonderful person Blaukraut May 2017 #114
He had four children who served in the military. Three became officers. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #117
If you thought it an insane order treestar May 2017 #69
PLEASE STAY WITH THE OP'S QUERY!! Nuremburg dealt with your post. Enough said. WinkyDink May 2017 #93
You would not have the JOB if you thought that jberryhill May 2017 #119
at this point don't we know it means treestar May 2017 #146
Yes, but the point being.... jberryhill May 2017 #147
I hope to God not nt maryellen99 May 2017 #19
Most likely, yes. The people who would launch the missiles are sanitized from the decision making berni_mccoy May 2017 #22
It appears so. Kentonio May 2017 #23
No. People in the military aren't robots. The order would be stopped before it got to the silo yurbud May 2017 #27
The order goes from the black box to the silo jberryhill May 2017 #31
Really? That would be "NO." Would YOU like to be the General who oversaw destruction because you WinkyDink May 2017 #40
What if you know the current president operates on treestar May 2017 #74
That is not in the military's purview. I'm referring solely to the OP's query. WinkyDink May 2017 #86
I have known a fair number of military people including a couple of launch officers yurbud May 2017 #129
how would someone in the military not know that pretty quickly? Also, North Korea knows once they yurbud May 2017 #127
Yes. The nuclear launch process is about speed and verification only Lee-Lee May 2017 #34
I was surprised during the election at how few Trump supporters know this jberryhill May 2017 #56
I think most Americans are unaware of how our nuclear defenses work. Coventina May 2017 #59
If they know the President is nuts, what can they do? treestar May 2017 #73
Nothing Lee-Lee May 2017 #81
So once we elect an insane President treestar May 2017 #84
That's correct jberryhill May 2017 #120
Well, for one thing, they can ask why he is still not impeached. See how that works? WinkyDink May 2017 #89
Short answer- yes sarisataka May 2017 #42
They probably don't all want to die treestar May 2017 #66
During a nuclear attack or strike?! WinkyDink May 2017 #94
Well I guess work on that now? treestar May 2017 #103
Did you not know this before the election? jberryhill May 2017 #122
It seems the voters did not treestar May 2017 #145
Okay, I've about had it. THE POWER OF THE PRESIDENT IN NUCLEAR LAUNCHES IS ABSOLUTE. READ ON: WinkyDink May 2017 #77
Good luck! Coventina May 2017 #83
The mind boggles. As a CHILD, I got it, "taking cover" under my school desk. WinkyDink May 2017 #96
Too many movies. AtheistCrusader May 2017 #101
Well now we should change that treestar May 2017 #108
We elected Bush II, who set the 'no first use' idea aside for even terror attacks. AtheistCrusader May 2017 #121
Make them possible to use. treestar May 2017 #143
Indeed we should jberryhill May 2017 #124
Yes right after he and the republicans pass single payer health care for all Americans, workinclasszero May 2017 #134
We need to quit electing treestar May 2017 #144
Yes, as soon as he fired McMaster. kentuck May 2017 #90
No need to fire anyone. See post #77 for authoritative details. WinkyDink May 2017 #97
I listened to Gen. Michael Hayden on 'Morning Joe' discussing this. PearliePoo2 May 2017 #104
There are no checks on the president for nuclear Kablooie May 2017 #109
Yes, and besides Mike Pence would back it up. Jim Dandy May 2017 #112
I would say yes. nycbos May 2017 #130
No. And I don't believe he's been given the real nuclear codes. ElementaryPenguin May 2017 #131
I don't think it is possible to give him fake codes jberryhill May 2017 #148
What would the day after look like? DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #150
I doubt we'd know jberryhill May 2017 #151
"We" would likely still be around. But we would be living in an anarchic world. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #152
We don't know how Russia and China would react to inbound nukes in their neck of the woods jberryhill May 2017 #153
I thought about that. "We better nuke them before they nuke us." DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #154
I would not be so sure jberryhill May 2017 #155
I always try to find something human, even in my enemies/opponents. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #156
Yes they would. MicaelS May 2017 #149
not just based on trump himself JI7 May 2017 #157
If nuclear weapons were used in N. Korea they would be tactical not strategic. former9thward May 2017 #158
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»If Trump ordered a nuclea...»Reply #25