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joeglow3

(6,228 posts)
135. Please tell me you are not that obtuse.
Mon Jun 25, 2012, 11:19 AM
Jun 2012

They have areas where the kids can climb, tubes they can go through, slides they can ride down, etc. Something like this can be done in 5 seconds. Or, do you support kids being chained to adults until they are 4? 6? 10? Can there be no controlled place, with ONE entrance, where a parent can let their kid begin to experience they responsibility of being a safe child.

My 9 year old was at a pool and another kid intentinally smashed him over the nose with a water gun, leading to 6 stitches and a $700 bill. Am I out of line for expecting the kid's parents to pay for it? Should my nine year old have been attached to me at the pool?

I don't think a Gilbert & Sullivan choice is going to do the trick. no_hypocrisy Jun 2012 #1
I'm all for creative sentencing tawadi Jun 2012 #3
Weird Willard's lucky he didn't face that judge. Octafish Jun 2012 #2
so does her mother. iemitsu Jun 2012 #4
Yes, counseling would be a more appropriate ruling. eom tawadi Jun 2012 #5
Uhm, how is it that the mother/guardian/sitter isn't being held responsible Lionessa Jun 2012 #6
Good question. eom tawadi Jun 2012 #7
I too wonder where the mother was SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #8
I'm more concerned that a 13-year old is making phone calls with threats of tammywammy Jun 2012 #9
That leaped out at me too Aerows Jun 2012 #107
That's another issue entirely. Not part of the 13-yo's criminal proceedings. kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #10
Cutting of a 3yos hair is what the charge is, according to the OPs excerpt. Lionessa Jun 2012 #12
Play palace? abelenkpe Jun 2012 #15
It shouldn't, imo, and I believe there are signs specifically saying not to leave children unattende Lionessa Jun 2012 #125
Please tell me you are not that obtuse. joeglow3 Jun 2012 #135
For a 3 year old, it's not obtuse. They don't need chains, but parents should be have LOS at every Lionessa Jun 2012 #139
Great, I'll have to tell my two and a half year old not to go down the spiral slide anymore snooper2 Jun 2012 #144
Okay then be a ridiculously exaggerative poster then. Lionessa Jun 2012 #157
"should be have LOS at every moment" your words snooper2 Jun 2012 #158
Nit picking. Please define a moment. Lionessa Jun 2012 #159
Well, since I'm in telecom a moment is a pretty small period of time snooper2 Jun 2012 #161
Children are not unattended abelenkpe Jun 2012 #150
The 13 year-old committed a crime. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #44
Age 13 is not a child, but a out of control young teenager!. My Mom always crunch60 Jun 2012 #116
Separate issue and not part of the story nadinbrzezinski Jun 2012 #58
At most partially responsible. After all, it is no defense to a crime... Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #103
Oops. posted twice.nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #104
Kids are sneaky.... blueamy66 Jun 2012 #174
Because their guardian didn't commit the assault Scootaloo Jun 2012 #176
NO. I'm tired of lazy, distracted parents getting off after not doing their jobs. Lionessa Jun 2012 #180
Know what you sound like? Scootaloo Jun 2012 #182
No, I don't. Republicans are the ones who like to fry children for criminal offenses, and send Lionessa Jun 2012 #183
Yes, I'm afraid you do Scootaloo Jun 2012 #184
Then be afraid, be very afraid, because you're just typing excuses for adults, Lionessa Jun 2012 #185
Fine by me. It's a choice, not a requirement. NYC Liberal Jun 2012 #11
Right, it's not like cutting off hands tawadi Jun 2012 #13
Probably not as intimidating as being a 3 year old and having two older kids cut off a chunk of hair SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #17
Would cutting off a young girls hair in a courtroom have a positive impact? tawadi Jun 2012 #22
Perhaps SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #24
Punishment is punishment. It's not rehabilitation. Sounds like a good idea to me. nt Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #105
intimidation only applies to perps then? this kid can learn how the other side roguevalley Jun 2012 #117
I've heard that in some original, intact cultures BanzaiBonnie Jun 2012 #14
I like your attitude. ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #21
seems fair. Liberal_in_LA Jun 2012 #16
Sounds fair to me. HappyMe Jun 2012 #18
If the Eighth Amendment's prohibition against "unusual" punishments is still applicable in Utah, AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #19
Your argument is baseless SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #20
Giving a choice between an excessive punishment and an unusual one is a violation of the AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #25
Please SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #26
Under a literal reading (which you imply is the only appropriate interpretation), the 8th Amend AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #32
Is this merely your opinon, or can you cite precedent for your assertion? cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #27
You are right in the sense that giving a choice would raise a presumption that the second punishment AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #28
Just as I thought SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #30
Just a cursory search on google returns the following SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #39
As you observed, "Only a truly outrageous alternative sentence for a relatively minor crime would be AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #62
I didn't make the assertion, YOU did. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #63
You, not I stated, "and how can it be stated without doubt that the second punishment is always AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #69
That's an awful lot of words when all you needed to say is cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #75
You're referring to yourself as having fun. Are you saying that you're a troll? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #110
One doesn't need to be a troll in order to cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #113
Classic response to getting your ass handed to you joeglow3 Jun 2012 #137
IMO your argument would make much more ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #34
You're right that the law sometimes treats the Constitutional rights of adults different than minors AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #49
That's a good point treestar Jun 2012 #67
The protection is against "cruel AND unusual punishment" not cruel OR unusual. morningfog Jun 2012 #114
What the judge did was both "cruel AND unusual." AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #115
He gave her the choice. She could have just taken the full community service time. morningfog Jun 2012 #119
A great many other people posting on this board think that the choice was given to the mother: AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #123
A little unusual yes, but certainly not cruel. When the 13 year old looks in crunch60 Jun 2012 #121
The Constitution JonLP24 Jun 2012 #134
The Supreme Court was spent a couple of centuries morningfog Jun 2012 #149
So when there was no DP JonLP24 Jun 2012 #153
I've seen many young kids from the youth authority, conventional punishment crunch60 Jun 2012 #120
Seems fair to me. blueamy66 Jun 2012 #23
I agree 100%. OrwellwasRight Jun 2012 #29
No, assaulting children is not justice. EFerrari Jun 2012 #33
Her mother cutting her hair is assault? n/t tammywammy Jun 2012 #35
What part of violence doesn't teach empathy is unclear? EFerrari Jun 2012 #38
The 13 year old cutting the 3 year old's hair was assault tammywammy Jun 2012 #42
You don't teach a kid respect for other people's boundaries EFerrari Jun 2012 #47
This kid already has plenty of problems. HappyMe Jun 2012 #52
So, giving her one more will fix her? EFerrari Jun 2012 #56
So, what? HappyMe Jun 2012 #64
I love the way defenders of shaming children as a teaching tool EFerrari Jun 2012 #65
The mother made the choice SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #71
Right, parents are never intimidated by anyone and always make good choices, EFerrari Jun 2012 #76
Intimidated by what? SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #81
Where was the parent of the 13 year old while she was lopping off blueamy66 Jun 2012 #128
Good question. HappyMe Jun 2012 #136
Shaming children? blueamy66 Jun 2012 #175
Please point to the post where I said all children are innocent babies. Thanks. EFerrari Jun 2012 #178
maybe I missed something blueamy66 Jun 2012 #179
Then the mother shouldn't have done it SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #46
That's right. The mother shouldn't have done it. EFerrari Jun 2012 #53
It would appear that way SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #57
Nobody has assaulted the defendant. blueamy66 Jun 2012 #37
Having your hair cut by court order is an assault on your physical integrity. EFerrari Jun 2012 #41
The 13 year old girl assaulted a 3 year old. HappyMe Jun 2012 #45
Oh, for Christsake. Yes, get her counseling where she will have to deal with EFerrari Jun 2012 #50
Her mother chose the punishment. HappyMe Jun 2012 #55
That would be the mother of a girl who attacked a 3 year old with scissors? EFerrari Jun 2012 #60
Oh please. blueamy66 Jun 2012 #130
You seem to be admiting to poor impulse control, amy. EFerrari Jun 2012 #168
so you agree with me blueamy66 Jun 2012 #169
So I have poor impulse control. Or it could be called LOVE. blueamy66 Jun 2012 #173
Her hair wasn't cut by court order SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #48
So what would you suggest as appropriate justice for this dysfunctional duo? crunch60 Jun 2012 #122
she is 13, not 11 blueamy66 Jun 2012 #129
If it was assault to cut the 3 yos, how is it not assault to force cut the 13yos? Lionessa Jun 2012 #140
For the same reason that a prison is legal but locking someone in your basement is not (nt) jeff47 Jun 2012 #163
Sounds like an UNFORGETTABLE lesson in the Golden Rule ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #31
Of course it's retribution. EFerrari Jun 2012 #36
Hurting them? SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #51
How confusing though, when she's being accused of assault for cutting hair w/out permission Lionessa Jun 2012 #142
'teach children compassion'. I don't think that's possible ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #68
Wtf? All children LEARN compassion EFerrari Jun 2012 #79
great post blueamy66 Jun 2012 #40
The Golden Rule is an application of SYMMETRY ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #61
Yes, I was raised that way. blueamy66 Jun 2012 #186
Contributing to social rituals bears absolutely no relation EFerrari Jun 2012 #43
You don't think she should be ashamed of what she did? n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #54
It's not that. EFerrari Jun 2012 #59
I disagree cabot Jun 2012 #66
No, shame is toxic to the emotional development of human beings. EFerrari Jun 2012 #72
Children are not precious little snowflakes who will melt via shame cabot Jun 2012 #77
I was raised a girl in a Latino Catholic family so you have nothin' on me. EFerrari Jun 2012 #89
He makes them work for a particular flower shop? Does he have any ownership interest in the AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #94
WHY SHAMING DOESN'T WORK EFerrari Jun 2012 #70
We'll just have to disagree cabot Jun 2012 #73
Feeling ashamed over something you have done EFerrari Jun 2012 #74
You're conflating shame and guilt backscatter712 Jun 2012 #124
From your post SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #78
Exactly! cabot Jun 2012 #82
Being shown how others feel is not the same as EFerrari Jun 2012 #83
Trauma? SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #90
Does Shaming Children Have the Opposite Effect? EFerrari Jun 2012 #92
Feel free, post it all you want SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #93
"Little monster"? Really? EFerrari Jun 2012 #95
Yep, little monster SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #96
Yep, she is a monster. blueamy66 Jun 2012 #187
I actually agree with this article: ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #80
I can and I did tawadi Jun 2012 #84
What, in your mind, would have been a proper punishment for this assault? n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #87
Counseling tawadi Jun 2012 #88
So you don't believe there should be any punishment for the assault of a toddler? SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #91
Working with victims of crime is also called community service. eom tawadi Jun 2012 #99
Community service is not a punishment SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #100
I'm with you SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #85
Because there are endless ways to help the older kid empathize EFerrari Jun 2012 #86
If shame works to control behavior, that's good enough. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #101
It doesn't. That's the point. EFerrari Jun 2012 #126
The best you can hope for is to control negative behavior until their brains are fully formed. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #138
Between letting kids practice bad behavior & shaming, there are a lot of measures that can be taken. EFerrari Jun 2012 #146
Shame is an inherent feature. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #151
Shame may be inherent but shaming is not, no. EFerrari Jun 2012 #155
The brains are the same from childhood to adolescence... lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #160
I don't recall claiming we can reason with kids as we can with adults. EFerrari Jun 2012 #162
No, you said that we can teach empathy. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #164
Actually, I said violence doesn't teach empathy. EFerrari Jun 2012 #165
Hitting with a 2x4 and a judge cutting a deal involving a ponytail are qualitatively different. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #172
She probably got the idea of cutting off someones hair as a prank from Romney. Auntie Bush Jun 2012 #97
Doubtful SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #98
+1000000 L0oniX Jun 2012 #148
Whole big pieces of weird / dark context missing from this story. DirkGently Jun 2012 #102
I'm wondering why the mother hadn't already done that before they got to court. Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #106
So, you'd teach your kid to do better EFerrari Jun 2012 #166
Yep. Nothing makes a kid realize what it feels like to be on the end of damage.... Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #171
Sounds like my Mom. blueamy66 Jun 2012 #188
This ruling kind of reminds me of Judge Michael Cicconetti, the most bizzare judge ever AJTheMan Jun 2012 #108
Yep. He's one of the gimmicky judges who enjoys publicity and self-promotion. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2012 #111
Or Larry Seidlin, the judge who started weeping as the Anna Nicole Smith trial was being decided nt AJTheMan Jun 2012 #112
13 years old Daninmo Jun 2012 #109
I don't have any problem with her ponytial cut off either. LisaL Jun 2012 #133
I hate it when thirteen-year-olds act like the Republican nominee for President. Vattel Jun 2012 #118
I was going to say why not, its not mandatory clang1 Jun 2012 #127
key phrase: "Lopan and an 11-year-old friend met a 3-year-old girl at a McDonald's" SoCalDem Jun 2012 #131
Many McDonalds LisaL Jun 2012 #132
Ours had one as well, but when my boys played there SoCalDem Jun 2012 #141
I see from 2-14 in there all the time snooper2 Jun 2012 #145
This thread is full of excellent arguments against such a punishment but crim son Jun 2012 #143
That would be just repeating and re-enforcing the original trauma. EFerrari Jun 2012 #167
The Twilight wormhole tawadi Jun 2012 #190
So the punishment is assault for assault ....pffft another fucked up judge, L0oniX Jun 2012 #147
The whole idea of any kind of sentence, light or severe, for a 13 year old is ludicrous Sanity Claws Jun 2012 #152
I can see the point of people that don't agree with the ponytail being cut off SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #170
Really? blueamy66 Jun 2012 #189
The mom is just as sick as the child ecstatic Jun 2012 #154
Seems like the shaming began with the release of the juvenile's identity. bluedigger Jun 2012 #156
the girl has some really deep issues that won`t be resolved by this action madrchsod Jun 2012 #177
This is screwy. xxqqqzme Jun 2012 #181
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