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eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
65. here's the problem as I see it...
Sun Dec 25, 2016, 09:21 PM
Dec 2016

It's odd that I was able to dispense with religion back when I was in highschool... and yet even as someone who was politically active in the 60's and 70s... and was even a polisci major, it wasn't until I was in my mid 40's that I was able to break free of that Civic Religion that protects the Constitution from real scrutiny. And once that happened, one can't put their head back in the sand again.

The system has strengths but it is also broken and responsible for many of our problems such as runaway corporate power and grotesque wealth inequality. What should we expect from a system that's antidemocratic, was based on class warfare (Madison's minority of the opulent) and designed to give wise elites a veto over the people at every turn? The system has no internal safeguards against the corruption of those elites, or against certain state suffrage formulas getting absurdly antidemocratic. I don't feel this connection gets enough study... and it seems off limits to even liberal think tanks. Not even a Bernie Sanders makes this connection and as we see here at DU... some just reject democratic principles in favor of that Civic Religion.

Demographic changes are making the system more antidemocratic and therefore more reformproof. Combine it all with the increased insanity of the GOP and Bush and Trump juntas being imposed on a nation that rejected them, and the trends are terrible and Dems better wake up and stop deluding themselves that demographics are on their side. In our system we have vast amounts of non voters that can be sucked into the GOP if new issues resonate.

If Dems refuse to try an reform the system... to bring it up to modern standards... they do so at their own, the nation's, and the world's risk.

So, sure... I don't feel morally bound by the Constitution, or the will of the dead... but morally by the principles in the Declaration Of Independence. Our electoral system is incapable of measuring the will of the people and the political is incapable of implementing it. It's about time the Dems as a party took the time to reconnect to some basic principles... such as democracy itself. Yup. the system is difficult to reform... and I'd say virtually impossible to reform in any serious way. If Dems give a shit, they have two options... to plan some 50-100 year strategy to overcome all the obstacles... even as the system gets more difficult to reform... or to push for a constitutional crisis and I can think of no other option that to have California threaten secession unless the system is made democratic. After all, it's those who live in Cal who most get the shafted in our system. They, more than anyone, have the moral right.

We need more rural voters metroins Dec 2016 #1
not sure where the connection is... eniwetok Dec 2016 #2
It's only reform proof right now metroins Dec 2016 #9
so you want to game the system eniwetok Dec 2016 #10
I agree Kilgore Dec 2016 #4
I don't buy into the red/blue model eniwetok Dec 2016 #8
But it has been amended 27 times since written Kilgore Dec 2016 #3
where did I say it was impossible? eniwetok Dec 2016 #6
Fair enough Kilgore Dec 2016 #20
That is demonstrably not true. Calista241 Dec 2016 #26
Voting alone doesn't make a system democratic: REPRESENTATION DOES. eniwetok Dec 2016 #32
just wondering why you fled the thread? eniwetok Jan 2017 #66
We need a 10th Amendment solution to amending the Constitution meow2u3 Dec 2016 #5
we have to eliminate the bottlenecks... eniwetok Dec 2016 #7
I'm thinking in terms of the way state constitutional amendments are passed meow2u3 Dec 2016 #12
you lost me n/t eniwetok Jan 2017 #67
It's also confusing to me n/t meow2u3 Jan 2017 #68
the people can't learn... eniwetok Dec 2016 #11
The 17th amendment got rid of an undemocratic feature Jose Garcia Dec 2016 #13
hardly eniwetok Dec 2016 #17
It changed it by making the election of Senators more democratic. onenote Dec 2016 #44
I'm not slavish to 1787 politics eniwetok Dec 2016 #45
'I have more respect for myself.' - apparently you don't as you appear to voluntarily live in one... PoliticAverse Dec 2016 #54
was there a point hidden in... eniwetok Dec 2016 #57
The 19th amendment got rid of an undemocratic feature Jose Garcia Dec 2016 #14
it's clear you're not thinking this through eniwetok Dec 2016 #21
The 26th amendment got rid of an undemocratic feature Jose Garcia Dec 2016 #15
wrong again eniwetok Dec 2016 #22
the breakdown already covers all your "examples" eniwetok Dec 2016 #25
The 24th amendment got rid of an undemocratic feature Jose Garcia Dec 2016 #16
The 23rd amendment got rid of an undemocratic feature Jose Garcia Dec 2016 #18
wrong again eniwetok Dec 2016 #24
The 15th amendment got rid of an undemocratic feature Jose Garcia Dec 2016 #19
wrong again eniwetok Dec 2016 #23
Amending the Constitution is very deliberately difficult. MineralMan Dec 2016 #27
I have NO problems with making amendments diffucult eniwetok Dec 2016 #28
Yes. It's far from a perfect system. No question. MineralMan Dec 2016 #30
and yet if it's not reformed... eniwetok Dec 2016 #34
The GOP would pass an anti-flag burning amendment if they could streamline the process, tblue37 Dec 2016 #39
can't agree... eniwetok Dec 2016 #48
I believe there is more danger than hope in the idea of constitutional reform csziggy Dec 2016 #55
Yes. That is the risk, which is why MineralMan Dec 2016 #56
Maybe you have not read the 27 amendments. former9thward Dec 2016 #29
OF COURSE I READ THEM! eniwetok Dec 2016 #31
It is clear you have your own personal definition former9thward Dec 2016 #33
pray tell... what IS democracy? eniwetok Dec 2016 #35
and sorry.... it's not my "personal definition" eniwetok Dec 2016 #36
outstanding issues you haven't responded to... eniwetok Dec 2016 #49
It's fun to pretend someone holding a premise different than our own does so out of ignorance. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #37
I guess you have not read all the replies by the OP to others in the thread. former9thward Dec 2016 #38
I Read It As LW Sticking Up For You ProfessorGAC Dec 2016 #40
Maybe since various posts have double negatives, incuding mine, former9thward Dec 2016 #41
I Still Sense The Chicago In You! ProfessorGAC Dec 2016 #43
no... I believe it's adherence to the Civic Religion eniwetok Dec 2016 #46
sorry if you're STILL not grasping what the discussion is about. eniwetok Dec 2016 #52
Let's stop and think about this for a minute kudzu22 Dec 2016 #42
perhaps if you read the thread.. eniwetok Dec 2016 #47
But we're not a democracy as formed. We're a republic made up of states. WillowTree Dec 2016 #58
Show me where a "republic" MUST be antidemocratic... eniwetok Dec 2016 #63
It's not that I and others don't understand what you're saying. WillowTree Dec 2016 #64
here's the problem as I see it... eniwetok Dec 2016 #65
The EC and most if not all gunz should be done away with but we are hostage libtodeath Dec 2016 #50
I believe a majority wants universal background checks... eniwetok Dec 2016 #51
jose garcia fled the thread... eniwetok Dec 2016 #53
Maybe if you were more adamant about your opinion dumbcat Dec 2016 #59
on insulting intelligence... eniwetok Dec 2016 #60
Rant against reality dumbcat Dec 2016 #61
thanks for another content-free post eniwetok Dec 2016 #62
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