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(24,461 posts)
Thu Jun 30, 2016, 08:33 AM Jun 2016

How low should the Average American Income be? [View all]

With this board's apparent and sudden accepting of fiscal conservativism and Classical Liberalism, the meme of the month is that we're not really the progressives we say we are unless we embrace job offshoring; unless we accept that automation is going to gobble up jobs and leave millions with no means of earning money. We should accept the coming worthlessness of our degrees; we're nothing but a dime-a-dozen in the world's eyes. We're "not needed" to be part of a consumer economy (search me how one makes THAT leap, but . . . OK . . . ). We'll, plain and simple, no matter what degree of education we have and no matter how much money it takes to go to college, have to "work even HARDER" and for less money if you want to be a true team player.

Face Facts, Kids. Average is Over.

And in getting on board with bringing our standards DOWN (rather than, perish the thought, bring THEIR standards to ours . . . but then our wealthy couldn't buy that 13th home and why do you hate Uncle Sam), American workers should embrace pay cuts, because if there's ONE thing that's going to help Capitalism achieve the purity we're shooting for, it's to take money AWAY from folks who have to spend every last dime of it!

If we're going to have a worldwide Capitalist orgy, Americans are going to have to bite some bitter pills and have to accept being POORER . . . having our wages and salaries CUT. Because you all can afford to have salary cuts, right? COME on, you so-called progressives!! SACRIFICE your salaries for the greater good, or you're just like Donald Trump!!

(Never mind that's a bunch of neolib horseshit, as this country's wages haven't experienced a significant overall inflation-adjusted rise since 1979 and there's not much evidence that offshoring jobs to Asia has indeed led to higher paying positions in America, a canard that the Greg Mankiws, Marc Andreessens and Steve Forbes of the world like to toss around.)

Sooooooooooooo, how low should the Average American Income go? I know I asked this before and got an answer in the form of a question.

Name that bottom right now.

$18,000/year? ASTOUNDING.

Where would you live? How would you educate yourself? How would you drive yourself around? How would you pay bills? What if you had kids? How would they eat? Would they dumpster dive or steal from orchards?

Hey, let's go even lower, since apparently, America's homeless are the world's Larry Ellisons . . .

How about $5000 a year per family?

What bridge would they be living under? That sure wouldn't afford them anything but a used van to camp in. Would their breakfasts be insects or varieties of mosses or dandelions?

How low should we go? What would satisfy the board's pure Capitalism cheerleaders?

128 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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us serfs should take the leavings and crumbs from the tables of our betters and be GRATEFUL! hobbit709 Jun 2016 #1
and not having to fight the dogs for them. nt Javaman Jun 2016 #2
Crumbs: It's STILL Asking Too Much, You Quasi-Republican Peegs! HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #3
So much hyperbole and pearl clutching.... JaneyVee Jun 2016 #4
so much unwillingness to face facts. hobbit709 Jun 2016 #6
Necessity costs are what's killing the middle/working/poor, not the price of tchotchkes. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #12
The only people against raising wages are Republicans.... JaneyVee Jun 2016 #35
Boy, could I win money off of you . . . HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #48
Good God Ishoutandscream2 Jun 2016 #109
I hear you. It leaves you dumbfounded. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #116
Lol. Raising wages by how much? To what level? KPN Jun 2016 #58
Those saying that $12/hour is a fine minimum wage? AllyCat Jun 2016 #39
Umm no. JaneyVee Jun 2016 #43
Unions are not about just the wages. We work for safe working conditions AllyCat Jun 2016 #44
This. Not raising minimum wages encourages union membership... scscholar Jun 2016 #81
The minimum wage doesn't move union wages up or down. There's no connection. It's made up. eom fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #68
Free trade means no regulations and is the reason many people are taken advantage of and poor. Rex Jun 2016 #55
Free trade means no regulations? Igel Jun 2016 #61
Well then you support fair trade, good to know. Rex Jun 2016 #63
That's a vacuous response. eom fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #69
Yes your response is most vacuous. Rex Jun 2016 #70
Nope, reading it wrong gives me a sad. Sorry. Although finding I read it wrong gives me a happy. :-) fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #75
Excellent. Rex Jun 2016 #76
Read DU posts re same! N/T Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #56
pearl clutching SoLeftIAmRight Jun 2016 #57
You ignore the past 25 years of free trade -- KPN Jun 2016 #65
What have the Romans done for us? fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #72
Those are all cost of production factors KPN Jun 2016 #103
No need to end in a non sequitur. fleabiscuit Jul 2016 #127
You mean the free trade Drahthaardogs Jun 2016 #110
Rust Belt Denizen here! HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #117
The average American wage doesn't need to be low at all. Just pay the 1% enough to pull it up. Scuba Jun 2016 #5
The 1% could buy everything FOR us. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #10
Ugh. If a job is repetitive, dangerous, or just plain icky, jobs will be replaced by robots. fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #78
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #16
How about doing something beyond ruining the economy? HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #18
K & R mountain grammy Jun 2016 #7
There is no going back to some idealized vision of the 50s. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #8
And you think giving the corporations more power will help everyone? hobbit709 Jun 2016 #9
Who said anything about giving corporations more power? Odin2005 Jun 2016 #11
Who is in charge of this global capitalism? seabeckind Jun 2016 #21
We all are. You buy products made overseas all the time. JaneyVee Jun 2016 #36
Because there is little else to buy. AllyCat Jun 2016 #41
Needs are a tough call. Igel Jun 2016 #67
When do you think you'll get around to fixing that airbag problem? seabeckind Jun 2016 #49
Y'all have this idealized vision where workers have a say in the outcome of American progress. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #13
Hence the reason for Unions madokie Jun 2016 #20
Well, when you have governors doing the work of the Kochs . . . HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #25
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #32
I would like to have corporate charters changed. seabeckind Jun 2016 #26
Should be easy to change a corporate charter in that regard. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #34
so lets put support for global labor organization in the platform tk2kewl Jun 2016 #28
+1 Go Vols Jun 2016 #106
I think if the US wanted to we could turn around globalism in a heartbeat. fasttense Jun 2016 #42
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #14
Is this fucking serious? HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #15
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #29
And speaking of BS Gormy Cuss Jun 2016 #31
"Communists" . . . . HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #33
Why don't you ask all of the working people he ripped off? TBA Jun 2016 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #30
Guys on the lido deck don't like this attitude. seabeckind Jun 2016 #17
The Lido Deck . . . and I just watched Love Boat recently!! HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #22
What? A box isn't good enough for you? Bettie Jun 2016 #97
Cricket and Aphid sauce wraps are amazing. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #98
If you can manage to steal them Bettie Jun 2016 #100
I was just reading yesterday that thistles are very edible passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #113
Congressional salaries should be tied to Downwinder Jun 2016 #23
It isn't the salary, it's the perks. seabeckind Jun 2016 #24
That is another matter. Downwinder Jun 2016 #27
I pretty much think it's the most important matter. seabeckind Jun 2016 #50
You mean median, but still Too high passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #111
According to whom? malthaussen Jun 2016 #37
Capitalism can't work with NO income. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #40
Sure, but who says the ruling class are capitalists? malthaussen Jun 2016 #46
So what's the solution? IronLionZion Jun 2016 #38
The answer is regulated capitalism Moostache Jun 2016 #47
Excellent. I may just have to borrow that. seabeckind Jun 2016 #53
I support regulated capitalism and markets IronLionZion Jun 2016 #73
While everything you said here is 100% correct, what you failed to mention passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #114
Oh, the CEO Larceny Cabal needs to have a rein put on their asses. HughBeaumont Jul 2016 #126
The trick is to push it as low as possible ... Martin Eden Jun 2016 #45
Per capita income now is $57,000 compared to ~$40,000 in Sweden, Germany and other progressive pampango Jun 2016 #51
If we drop off the top 400 seabeckind Jun 2016 #59
We should go after more than the top 400 but that would be a start. pampango Jun 2016 #60
Back when the tax rates were much higher seabeckind Jun 2016 #62
Standing ovation!!! Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #52
That isn't a remotely meaningful question - the average wage has nothing to do with poverty. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #54
Is there any way you can word your questions without being patently insulting? HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #92
I feel your OP leaves you in something of a glass house in this respect... N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #94
That is a very good question that makes some uncomfortable. Rex Jun 2016 #64
Divide GDP by Population Octafish Jun 2016 #66
They sure are crying all over the place about fair trade. Rex Jun 2016 #71
$4.25/hour, like Puerto Rico MisterP Jun 2016 #74
Not bad, that's double what they make in India. Rex Jun 2016 #77
Americans are SPECIAL. Our incomes should be higher than the world average. Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #79
$1 a day would put pretty much all non-financially independent people under a bridge. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #82
How low should the average WORLD wages be? Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #85
$5000 a year for everyone. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #87
I can live comfortably on 18k a year Lance Bass esquire Jun 2016 #80
I DO live comfortably on less than $12,000 per year. Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #88
"Not as bad as..." Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #101
On the bright side, if 90% of people only made $18K, housing and everything else would be less or Hoyt Jun 2016 #83
That's a "Bright Side"?? HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #84
Sorry, if they can't sell a product to the masses, they aren't going to make any money. You'd Hoyt Jun 2016 #90
Someone better tell the universities that. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #96
I think it was a joke. Rex Jun 2016 #91
I suggest that Charles Dicken's London would be an excellent model to follow. Kablooie Jun 2016 #86
Let's benchmark the golden age at 1968 for minimum wage. fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #89
I hope your next screed will be in opposition to nuance. Stinky The Clown Jun 2016 #95
Working all the time and still have total poverty. Rec for comments. nilesobek Jun 2016 #99
Thank you for this post TheFarseer Jun 2016 #102
It's depressing for sure. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #104
I've met business types who resent the idea of paying for an employee's car payments. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2016 #105
I think that depends on who the person with the checkbook thinks is average. jtuck004 Jun 2016 #107
Oh come now. McDonald's is expanding in India - Earth is Saved! tenderfoot Jun 2016 #108
I've even seen "say hello to your replacement, $15/hr supporters" trolls . . . HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #115
If you aren't starving to death Aerows Jun 2016 #112
Better to die and decrease the surplus population. PowerToThePeople Jun 2016 #118
KNR. n/t DirkGently Jun 2016 #119
Supporters of unfair competition are anti-society and support breaking down civilization AZ Progressive Jun 2016 #120
Define average. Define income. mwooldri Jul 2016 #121
kick for exposure. BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2016 #122
This message was self-deleted by its author senseandsensibility Jul 2016 #123
Kick because I agree senseandsensibility Jul 2016 #124
Ross Perot told us the plan in 92. He laid it all out. And thus far, all has been going just silvershadow Jul 2016 #125
At a level that would please a Pakistani bricklayer. AngryAmish Jul 2016 #128
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