General Discussion

1939

(1,683 posts)

189. Your last paragraph nails it

Sat Apr 2, 2016, 03:16 PM

Apr 2016

Supply and demand. Unions thrive when they can control the supply of labor. The problem comes when the supply becomes uncontrollable.

Look what has happened in the last 55 years:

1. Baby boom poured new workers into the economy.
2. Women left off being housewives and joined the workforce.
3. Legal immigration increased exponentially as the restrictions of the 1920s were relaxed.
4. Gigantic increases in illegal immigration.
5. Dramatic decrease in jobs available due to automation, computerization, and off-shoring

The most successful time for unions was the 1950s:

1. Only supply from the baby bust of the 1930s were entering the job market.
2. Very few married women were in the workforce.
3. Legal immigration was just a trickle.
4. Illegal immigration was made difficult enough that only young and vigorous young men could make it across and they could be quickly deported when they were no longer needed (i.e. at the end of the picking season).

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Sorry... a $15 minimum wage is too high [View all] eniwetok Apr 2016 OP

You are aware that this is the "Democratic" Underground site and not a Republican site right? revbones Apr 2016 #1

On fiscal/economic matters, distinguishing between the two ain't easy. merrily Apr 2016 #5

Unfortunately..... daleanime Apr 2016 #77

How does advocating for a return to the highest MW.... eniwetok Apr 2016 #14

"free lunch" does not mean what you think it means Major Nikon Apr 2016 #25

who's advocating predatory employment??? eniwetok Apr 2016 #80

I'm pretty sure you are Major Nikon Apr 2016 #95

if you can't make a point without gross distortions... eniwetok Apr 2016 #115

"Gross distortions" You mean like your strawman nonsense? Major Nikon Apr 2016 #121

I suspect I'm far to the left of you eniwetok Apr 2016 #136

You aren't fooling anyone Major Nikon Apr 2016 #147

sorry eniwetok Apr 2016 #173

You tend to lose a lot of ground arguing that you don't have GOP sympathys... Lancero Apr 2016 #174

there are plenty of "free lunch" ideologies... eniwetok Apr 2016 #177

You? by posting this and your replies to comments on the post imo lunasun Apr 2016 #227

Who, specifically? LanternWaste Apr 2016 #31

those who wave a magic wand eniwetok Apr 2016 #42

So... little more than an un-named, unknown, unspecified group of people. LanternWaste Apr 2016 #85

the burden of proof isn't on me eniwetok Apr 2016 #91

Take your "free lunch" commentary to Free Republic where it belongs. Maedhros Apr 2016 #63

+1000000 SammyWinstonJack Apr 2016 #119

drive by eniwetok Apr 2016 #135

Wow! Fox talking points on DU yuiyoshida Apr 2016 #226

Really? Fox Is Advocating for a the HIGHEST the MW has ever been? eniwetok Apr 2016 #238

President Obama advocates a $10.10 minimum wage. Is he not a Democrat? (nt) Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #54

here I am advocating for $11 and I'm called a GOPer eniwetok Apr 2016 #97

Is he not a Democrat? AlbertCat Apr 2016 #228

Reading his Journal, I'm thinking this one may be skirting MIRT Kittycat Apr 2016 #104

This isn't Bernie Underground, much as you want it to be. pnwmom Apr 2016 #154

I'm a Bernie person... but I don't have to accept every one of his ideas eniwetok Apr 2016 #159

You might already be familiar with this link, but just in case: pnwmom Apr 2016 #160

No but they typically don't make posts justifying revbones Apr 2016 #165

32 progressive Senators and President Obama and his council of Economic Advisers pnwmom Apr 2016 #166

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see 12 mentioned in the OP. revbones Apr 2016 #167

I have no problem going higher eniwetok Apr 2016 #175

wouldn't cause employers to shed jobs. AlbertCat Apr 2016 #229

Wow. Arguing for a lower minimum wage revbones Apr 2016 #207

You are aware that there are only two mainstream parties, but far more than two political viewpoints Shoulders of Giants Apr 2016 #206

group think eniwetok Apr 2016 #209

Thanks Hillary HERVEPA Apr 2016 #2

This should be good... jonno99 Apr 2016 #3

I accept your apology. Iggo Apr 2016 #4

gee whiz...really? desmiller Apr 2016 #6

Robots greymattermom Apr 2016 #7

They are coming regardless of wage increases. ohnoyoudidnt Apr 2016 #151

I have news for you Wallmart hires not just in large cities awake Apr 2016 #8

then why not $20? eniwetok Apr 2016 #61

MW was not a livable wage in 1968 thats why we need $15 which is a "Livable Wage" awake Apr 2016 #88

living wage for whom? eniwetok Apr 2016 #98

"rural backwater" ? showing a bit of an attitude arn't we there awake Apr 2016 #99

So what was FDR's Minumum Wage? eniwetok Apr 2016 #210

oh you're a righty rockfordfile Apr 2016 #137

best ya got? eniwetok Apr 2016 #163

seriously? HoustonDave Apr 2016 #237

apology not accepted because you a dead wrong. Cobalt Violet Apr 2016 #9

dead wrong about what? eniwetok Apr 2016 #17

But you pass Old Codger Apr 2016 #20

We don't all need gas hfojvt Apr 2016 #33

My MY My Old Codger Apr 2016 #52

no, actually I am not special hfojvt Apr 2016 #58

The town where I lived in the 1968 time period was (all one way figures) 15 miles to a shraby Apr 2016 #109

How about the Old Codger Apr 2016 #123

They are confused and thought Google would be enough to convince a few here. Rex Apr 2016 #51

The overuse and misuse of labels has left many of them effectively meaningless. cheapdate Apr 2016 #79

They don't even Old Codger Apr 2016 #125

masochistic libertarians ...its a thing with them... it = freedom to serve lunasun Apr 2016 #232

Health care costs weren't sky high either. Could actually afford medical treatment. SammyWinstonJack Apr 2016 #122

This... tkmorris Apr 2016 #34

ball's not in my court eniwetok Apr 2016 #72

you're really going to compare 1968 to 2016? Skittles Apr 2016 #105

oh my! yuiyoshida Apr 2016 #230

HAR, OMG yuiyoshida Skittles Apr 2016 #241

Should be $30 for everybody, plus guaranteed jobs for anybody that wants one. bemildred Apr 2016 #10

And unicorns! EL34x4 Apr 2016 #13

I'll take $40, with a pony unicorn. Glassunion Apr 2016 #15

Indeed, why not? Why be cheap? It's not like we don't have the money. bemildred Apr 2016 #16

Why not $3.15? LanternWaste Apr 2016 #32

Unicorns! ohnoyoudidnt Apr 2016 #181

When automation starts eating into white collar jobs, this proposal will gain more traction. nt killbotfactory Apr 2016 #19

Yes. nt bemildred Apr 2016 #21

Except you made the argument that we can't tkmorris Apr 2016 #107

That wasn't me. bemildred Apr 2016 #124

I make $25/hr and I'm basically rich Reter Apr 2016 #169

Good, I like it. Plenty of money for everybody. nt bemildred Apr 2016 #180

You do realize that whatever the MW is, ohnoyoudidnt Apr 2016 #182

Yep. It's always smart to start negotiations with a compromise. nt killbotfactory Apr 2016 #11

April Fool!!!! Depaysement Apr 2016 #12

Large companies like wal mart and McDonald's need to be required to pay a $15 min wage Flyingbird5066 Apr 2016 #18

The no skill labor provided... TipTok Apr 2016 #45

or fire a few employees Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #57

This proposal doesn't work. Chan790 Apr 2016 #126

Ronald Reagan couldn't have put it any better. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #22

don't be silly eniwetok Apr 2016 #67

how about a minimum guaranteed income? ish of the hammer Apr 2016 #23

this is something we need to look into eniwetok Apr 2016 #75

Citing "enormous disruptions" that are undocumented and totally lacking in the historical record Kip Humphrey Apr 2016 #24

I don't believe you are the first to point that out truebluegreen Apr 2016 #70

Sorry... the $15 MW is without a historical record eniwetok Apr 2016 #101

Minimum Wage in Australia is US$21/hr Odin2005 Apr 2016 #145

I was speaking of the MW in the US. eniwetok Apr 2016 #161

australian mimimum wage is $17.29 or $13.14 US eniwetok Apr 2016 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author gsb54 Apr 2016 #26

Pretty much the same here, 1960s-70s Doremus Apr 2016 #221

Yes, college tuition as well gsb54 Apr 2016 #224

Oh please DO go on... JackInGreen Apr 2016 #27

Most MW workers don't work 40 hours a week. Starry Messenger Apr 2016 #28

Ahh Bullcheese. It worked just fine in the 60s, and would be higher today if inflation indexed. L. Coyote Apr 2016 #29

That $10.95 IS indexed to inflation... eniwetok Apr 2016 #118

1) you are not sorry 2) you have no idea what you are talking about. Javaman Apr 2016 #30

You are referencing productivity across the board 1939 Apr 2016 #94

first, are you defending the idea that there shouldn't be a living wage? nt Javaman Apr 2016 #106

We aren't discussing living wage. 1939 Apr 2016 #150

Interesting subthread. PETRUS Apr 2016 #185

Sure, compare 1939 Apr 2016 #188

I gather you don't understand the implications of my division of labor remark. PETRUS Apr 2016 #199

That doesn't make any sense atoll. Aristus Apr 2016 #35

First of all, it is not $15 NOW zalinda Apr 2016 #36

You also need a computer and some form of mobile phone to get a minimum wage job. haele Apr 2016 #65

Your last paragraph nails it 1939 Apr 2016 #189

the minimum wage should be a living wage.... mike_c Apr 2016 #37

that's NOT a national mimimum wage though hfojvt Apr 2016 #48

that's why I said the "minimum wage" should reflect the real cost of living... mike_c Apr 2016 #108

No, local minimums are a non-starter just like 6 months ago when I believe it was you... Chan790 Apr 2016 #127

yup... the magic wand approach!! eniwetok Apr 2016 #134

Actually... Chan790 Apr 2016 #138

so wages should be linked to... eniwetok Apr 2016 #184

Are you aware it's phased in? SHRED Apr 2016 #38

of course I'm aware eniwetok Apr 2016 #89

Any business that says that a $15 minimum wage is too high. Their business Glassunion Apr 2016 #39

Agreed, especially in gigantic corporations where the CEO is pulling down millions for sitting underahedgerow Apr 2016 #74

We have watched companies dump as Skink Apr 2016 #40

In 1968, rogerashton Apr 2016 #41

sorry, heresy does not fly here hfojvt Apr 2016 #43

Oh look it is another libertarian agreeing with the pathetic attempt at sounding smart. Rex Apr 2016 #46

I know you are hfojvt Apr 2016 #53

You don't make the case any better than the OP does tkmorris Apr 2016 #64

Here's my response philosslayer Apr 2016 #96

While yet others make unsupported and hyped-up allegations to better maintain the pretense LanternWaste Apr 2016 #71

Can't really add any more, the posters here already tore you a new one. Rex Apr 2016 #44

I guess you're not a fan of Obama..... he has proposed a $10.10 minimum wage, Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #69

that you infer merely two possibilities is on you, not anyone else. LanternWaste Apr 2016 #73

Obama is wrong... Chan790 Apr 2016 #128

really? libertatians are FOR a the highest MW we ever had? eniwetok Apr 2016 #187

Too bad the Republicans control the House and the Senate. HughBeaumont Apr 2016 #47

Even at $10.95 per hr Walmart employees will still need our assistance. B Calm Apr 2016 #49

April Fools? sakabatou Apr 2016 #50

$15 is Probably the Right Minimum Wage for New York and Other High-Cost Cities On the Road Apr 2016 #55

For reasons of economics...it has to be the same everywhere. Chan790 Apr 2016 #130

I Would Say the Opposite On the Road Apr 2016 #139

It doesn't matter. Chan790 Apr 2016 #157

Funny all the outrage here about a post that agrees with President Obama on this issue. Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #56

$10.10 is a bullshit low number and Obama should be embarrassed by it. Chan790 Apr 2016 #131

Needed to be indexed with inflation a long time ago MattP Apr 2016 #59

The median wage where I live is a bit over $13/hr Adrahil Apr 2016 #60

"locally indexed minimum" not an acceptable proposal. Chan790 Apr 2016 #132

NO. That's not even close to logical. Adrahil Apr 2016 #141

Look at what? Chan790 Apr 2016 #158

For reason, the link did not paste. Adrahil Apr 2016 #162

The person in NYC is not going to be worse off than they are now. Chan790 Apr 2016 #168

Okay, i think that's nuts. Good day. NT Adrahil Apr 2016 #183

What the heck is it to you? How much do you make an hour? Sunlei Apr 2016 #62

I completely agree taught_me_patience Apr 2016 #66

with talk like that.... eniwetok Apr 2016 #195

New York State Has Much Rural Territory corbettkroehler Apr 2016 #68

not quite true eniwetok Apr 2016 #100

numbers can be manipulated in many fashions...here is the history with (2014 real dollars value): islandmkl Apr 2016 #76

Maybe, just maybe, expectations for high profits for everything Trajan Apr 2016 #78

restaurant owners probably couldnt pay it Mary Mac Apr 2016 #81

There would certainly be an automation boom, especially in fast food. Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #87

$15 per hour as minimum wage might be good as.... Herman4747 Apr 2016 #82

Have you thought about starting a, The Minimum Wage Is Too Dam High party? Capt. Obvious Apr 2016 #83

+1 B Calm Apr 2016 #92

Sounds about right. cheapdate Apr 2016 #84

This is to be phased in by 2022 WhiteTara Apr 2016 #86

Actually that number is placed nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #90

ugh. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2016 #93

How much do you make? Scootaloo Apr 2016 #102

Your concern for Corporate CEO's and the top 1%'s money has been duly noted. tenderfoot Apr 2016 #103

Agreed Visionary Apr 2016 #110

apology accepted elehhhhna Apr 2016 #111

what complete bullshit. Those who cannot pay for rent or food or medicine know better. liberal_at_heart Apr 2016 #112

Most labor economists disagree. n/t Gormy Cuss Apr 2016 #113

Since 1968, the US per capita GDP, allowing for inflation, has risen by 125% muriel_volestrangler Apr 2016 #114

Anyone who thinks this should take a voluntary pay cut to $10.95 an hour. nichomachus Apr 2016 #116

Bravo! +1000 Melurkyoulongtime Apr 2016 #240

I know what you mean; and it drives me crazy too Populist_Prole Apr 2016 #243

WTF are you babbling about? eniwetok Apr 2016 #242

That "kid" you speak of Melurkyoulongtime Apr 2016 #244

wow Solly Mack Apr 2016 #117

I think your on the wrong website. This is the one for the LIBERAL party. nt LostOne4Ever Apr 2016 #120

Why don't you want people to make enough money to live on without subsidies? Kalidurga Apr 2016 #129

+1000! n/t Chan790 Apr 2016 #133

I know right? peabody Apr 2016 #143

He must like paying higher taxes. B Calm Apr 2016 #149

Well as long as those taxes are going to the hard working Walmart family... Kalidurga Apr 2016 #153

Come down here to Austin and see of you can live on less. hobbit709 Apr 2016 #140

Disruption can be a good thing in an unequal, unjust system. Zorra Apr 2016 #142

Right-wing horseshit. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #144

LOL, 89 posts. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. nt Logical Apr 2016 #146

Welcome Ewoks CreekDog Apr 2016 #148

I will direct you away from the thought of dollars out of your pocket to one glaring fact Warpy Apr 2016 #152

back it up eniwetok Apr 2016 #214

Sure Warpy Apr 2016 #219

sorry, your sites do NOT prove what you claimed eniwetok Apr 2016 #225

I would say, in some places a $15 minimum wage is too high, i.e., ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #155

Actually, NY State govt just reached a deal for a "two-tiered" raise in the MW LiberalElite Apr 2016 #156

wrong website dana_b Apr 2016 #170

Anytime the military receives a raise in the form of karadax Apr 2016 #171

Absolutely zero evidence to back that up. tenderfoot Apr 2016 #172

De facto minimum wage in oil patch north dakota is $15 per hour. Best economy ever. Land Shark Apr 2016 #176

Any raise in MW that large will be phased in n/t TexasBushwhacker Apr 2016 #178

You sound like a Republican..and it ain't so. bkkyosemite Apr 2016 #179

The OP favors a higher minimum wage than President Obama (nt) Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #197

You been a member here for 4 days huh? Thread trashed, total ignore. TeamPooka Apr 2016 #186

another content-free drive by eniwetok Apr 2016 #193

The support and agreement the poster has gained in 4 days are a real telltale too! lunasun Apr 2016 #234

so I'm to post what some others want to hear? eniwetok Apr 2016 #239

This message was self-deleted by its author GreenEyedLefty Apr 2016 #190

I love how people who make an actual living wage think those Pakhet Apr 2016 #191

Check this out... local restaurant, metro Detroit, has been paying a $15 min wage for 2.5 years... GreenEyedLefty Apr 2016 #192

another magic wand post eniwetok Apr 2016 #194

The point was that paying a high "minimum" wage GreenEyedLefty Apr 2016 #200

spreading the wealth is fine eniwetok Apr 2016 #202

Minimum wage, controlled for cost of living and corporate stratification should be $20/hour... MrMickeysMom Apr 2016 #196

....... polly7 Apr 2016 #198

lol SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #201

wow... eniwetok Apr 2016 #203

why rebut rw shit SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #208

translation eniwetok Apr 2016 #211

you are being silly SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #223

I reject your argument. noamnety Apr 2016 #204

reject what argument? eniwetok Apr 2016 #213

good lord. welcome to ignore. Hiraeth Apr 2016 #205

I welcome your ignore eniwetok Apr 2016 #215

Lemme guess, you make WELL over $15/hr TheDormouse Apr 2016 #212

and I would not expect... eniwetok Apr 2016 #217

if u can't afford to pay workers decently u shouldnt be in business TheDormouse Apr 2016 #218

sure, and I've made this argument in other forums eniwetok Apr 2016 #231

this argument is as weak as opposing OSHA or FDA or EPA laws TheDormouse Apr 2016 #220

no, it IS a right eniwetok Apr 2016 #233

$15 plus transportation allowance here.When you make assumptions about who is posting and disagrees lunasun Apr 2016 #235

"that $1.60 of 1968 would be worth $10.95 *today*" KamaAina Apr 2016 #216

CA is starting at $10 eniwetok Apr 2016 #222

Did everyone note the date that this was posted? mac56 Apr 2016 #236