HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » I know those who defend i... » Reply #37

Response to agnostic102 (Reply #18)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:47 PM

37. What do you think of this post from ummah.com? Would this argument be acceptable

across the more peaceful Muslims within the different sects which are allegedly infighting, as well?

from Harun:

"...if khilafah were still in place, there would have been no catalyst for people to create Al-Qaeda, Dawlah, Taliban, JAN, Hamas etc and all the groups the West complains about. Absence of the central leader is why people have the ability to create paramilitaries in the first place, because there should already be an organized Islamic army which was the job of the caliph. With no caliph, no army, and no state representation the global needs of the Muslims, anyone can start a militia or paramilitary if they have guns and people. Albeit the Ottoman caliph became a figurehead towards the end, but hell we don't even have a figurehead. We have less than that these days. And these kuffar complain about chaos in the region, their creed destroyed the Muslim World and it has coming back on their own lands, which was inevitable. All of the groups that they have on the "terror list" (AQ, ISIS, Hamas, Taliban, Al-Shabab) were all formed in the late 80's, 90's, and 2000's. What was happening all those decades before? It was oppression without retaliation. They are fortunate that it took the ummah 60 years to respond to them because it could have come earlier."

and then from Blackbeard:

"...It's all matters of itjihad. There is no specific ruling set in stone when it comes to issues like this. How could there be? Stuff like this never happened during the time of Muhammad , the salaf all the way until explosives and guns were invented.

The contemporary saudi scholars who are sponsored by the apostate rulers are not the only scholars of muslims. One cannot declare another party as non-muslims or them going against Islam without proper evidence.

Simply, there will always exist two views on this matter. The scholars of jihad deriving the ruling that it's allowed in matter of qisas and the other party deriving ruling that it's not allowed even in matters of qisas. BOTH having enough evidence to make them both valid. The famous position ibn uthaymeen r.a. had which allowed qisas to be executed on civilians is proof of that.... that is that this whole issue is all based on matters of itjihad and this was the itjihad of ibn uthaymeen r.a.

I am not saying I condone the attacks or that I follow this opinion, matter of fact I don't. I refrain however from talking about those who do and I can't say what they do is haram when they have evidence that the apparent is that it's allowed. But don't get me wrong, nothing of this is the sunnah of our prophet.

It all depends where you look at, naturally the saudi scholars wont allow it. Hence why I stay away from discussions like this, why I warn others to stay away from it as we have no knowledge in this subject."

-------------------------------------------


I'm not disagreeing with you, agnostic, since I'm atheist (raised Christian).

My exposure to knowledge of Islam at the University of Chicago's Center for Middle Eastern Studies (during my year as a U. of C. Mellon Fellow) -- and even sites like this that possibly exclude Christian opinion (I don't know if that's a fact of this site, since I haven't yet tried to join) -- makes me wonder if the conversations across the billion or more Muslims who are peaceful will end up ruling the day.

And should we in the West defend Western-controlled land bases regardless of former "sins" like the crusades, colonialism and the war on terror.

I don't expect some final definitive answer, just am curious about what a concerned American former Muslim thinks.

I very much appreciate your OP.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 117 replies Author Time Post
agnostic102 Mar 2016 OP
villager Mar 2016 #1
philosslayer Mar 2016 #2
agnostic102 Mar 2016 #6
philosslayer Mar 2016 #12
LiberalArkie Mar 2016 #40
linuxman Mar 2016 #10
Duppers Mar 2016 #39
SylviaD Mar 2016 #49
PassingFair Mar 2016 #57
linuxman Mar 2016 #67
Arugula Latte Mar 2016 #102
oberliner Mar 2016 #11
philosslayer Mar 2016 #14
oberliner Mar 2016 #16
philosslayer Mar 2016 #17
oberliner Mar 2016 #23
philosslayer Mar 2016 #29
oberliner Mar 2016 #30
lastone Mar 2016 #46
Oneironaut Mar 2016 #15
Scootaloo Mar 2016 #77
Oneironaut Mar 2016 #105
treestar Mar 2016 #25
Gore1FL Mar 2016 #42
gratuitous Mar 2016 #62
Gore1FL Mar 2016 #71
gratuitous Mar 2016 #72
Gore1FL Mar 2016 #73
Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #87
Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #69
Gore1FL Mar 2016 #70
Odin2005 Mar 2016 #94
FrodosPet Mar 2016 #101
FrodosPet Mar 2016 #103
Gore1FL Mar 2016 #106
blm Mar 2016 #47
philosslayer Mar 2016 #64
blm Mar 2016 #65
Rex Mar 2016 #79
Albertoo Mar 2016 #92
FrodosPet Mar 2016 #100
brooklynite Mar 2016 #110
TipTok Mar 2016 #114
left-of-center2012 Mar 2016 #3
theboss Mar 2016 #7
dembotoz Mar 2016 #32
bvf Mar 2016 #33
agnostic102 Mar 2016 #8
SylviaD Mar 2016 #52
oberliner Mar 2016 #31
Gore1FL Mar 2016 #43
lastone Mar 2016 #48
snagglepuss Mar 2016 #4
linuxman Mar 2016 #5
closeupready Mar 2016 #9
agnostic102 Mar 2016 #18
closeupready Mar 2016 #24
LineLineLineReply What do you think of this post from ummah.com? Would this argument be acceptable
ancianita Mar 2016 #37
FrodosPet Mar 2016 #104
Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #85
Post removed Mar 2016 #13
Maedhros Mar 2016 #19
Wounded Bear Mar 2016 #20
mwrguy Mar 2016 #59
Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #91
Martin Eden Mar 2016 #21
alarimer Mar 2016 #22
MariaThinks Mar 2016 #26
Duppers Mar 2016 #54
Post removed Mar 2016 #27
ladjf Mar 2016 #28
MisterP Mar 2016 #34
liberal_at_heart Mar 2016 #35
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #36
Science Crow Mar 2016 #53
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #58
Science Crow Mar 2016 #61
Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #63
Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #68
Bradical79 Mar 2016 #74
Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #75
Bradical79 Mar 2016 #83
Locrian Mar 2016 #38
killbotfactory Mar 2016 #115
davidthegnome Mar 2016 #41
oberliner Mar 2016 #80
davidthegnome Mar 2016 #84
Mc Mike Mar 2016 #44
oberliner Mar 2016 #81
Mc Mike Mar 2016 #108
oberliner Mar 2016 #109
Mc Mike Mar 2016 #112
oberliner Mar 2016 #113
Mc Mike Mar 2016 #116
Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #45
B Calm Mar 2016 #51
Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #89
Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #86
Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #88
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #50
oberliner Mar 2016 #82
agnostic102 Mar 2016 #90
jtuck004 Mar 2016 #55
REP Mar 2016 #56
etherealtruth Mar 2016 #60
blm Mar 2016 #66
Scootaloo Mar 2016 #76
Rex Mar 2016 #78
Odin2005 Mar 2016 #93
Albertoo Mar 2016 #95
Odin2005 Mar 2016 #96
Albertoo Mar 2016 #97
Odin2005 Mar 2016 #98
Albertoo Mar 2016 #99
Quantess Mar 2016 #107
Iggo Mar 2016 #111
ellenrr Mar 2016 #117
Please login to view edit histories.