We know that what one observes in chemistry, biochemistry and physiology (Reply #205)

In the discussion thread: Neil deGrasse Tyson destroys argument for intelligent design [View all]

Fri Nov 13, 2015, 02:59 PM

cpwm17 (3,829 posts)

205. We know that what one observes in chemistry, biochemistry and physiology

exists, so obviously what we observe is possible. It's self-contradictory to claim what we know is real is too complex to be possible, and then claim that an undefined something much more complex must have made it.

We have zero evidence for any god and no precise definition for what this god is or what it does.

Neil deGrasse Tyson is arguing against specific claim about a god. You can claim that your definition for a god is different than what Neil deGrasse Tyson is arguing against. That doesn't invalidate Neil deGrasse Tyson argument.

You do seem to be using an intelligent design argument so Neil deGrasse Tyson still seems to apply.

Our Universe may be infinite and there is very likely much more beyond. In our Universe there are trillions of planets in the visible Universe. That's a lot of lottery tickets to produce a planet that can evolve intelligent life. Likely there are enumerable universes and perhaps other realms unknowable to us beyond our Universe. A lot is going to happen in such a large reality, obviously including life.

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231 replies	Author	Time	Post
Neil deGrasse Tyson destroys argument for intelligent design [View all]	eridani	Nov 2015	OP
evidence, schmevidence. ya gotta believe!	KG	Nov 2015	#1
Well, faith IS a major part of religion.	7962	Nov 2015	#25
Faith is used to avoid critical thinking.U R told what to believe.	bjobotts	Nov 2015	#132
Thats the opposite of faith.	7962	Nov 2015	#146
Hey, watch it. I had some schmevidence with my steak the other night, loved it.	randys1	Nov 2015	#118
low sodium, perfect. here's another health tip	nilram	Nov 2015	#136
Neil deGrasse Tyson is a national treasure. nt	DLevine	Nov 2015	#2
He really is	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#72
He gives me faith in humanity...get it, faith...me, humanity...yep	randys1	Nov 2015	#120
It's very high praise!	CrispyQ	Nov 2015	#202
The thermodynamic argument behind Intelligent Design has a simple mathematical error.	DetlefK	Nov 2015	#3
I never heard that argument before.	rogerashton	Nov 2015	#6
Non-equilibrium processes are the latest research into the beginnings of life.	DetlefK	Nov 2015	#10
Yes, but doesn't even require infinite number of particles	Bernardo de La Paz	Nov 2015	#17
It would be interesting to do relativistic thermodynamics.	DetlefK	Nov 2015	#22
In addition to that, Earth is not a closed system	hatrack	Nov 2015	#35
Yeah, Mr. smartypants, well the sun just set.	central scrutinizer	Nov 2015	#128
Entropy is my favorite state, actually.	Hortensis	Nov 2015	#170
I think of it as a nuclear reactor that is 93 million miles away from the nearest elementary school	eridani	Nov 2015	#159
To quote the great MC Hawking	whopis01	Nov 2015	#162
it is rooted in some rather gross assumptions...	0rganism	Nov 2015	#206
Entropy is a statistical/mathematical attribute, rather than a physical one.	DetlefK	Nov 2015	#212
low relative to a rock, you mean	0rganism	Nov 2015	#221
The smallest features in microprocessors are 15-20 nm. The smallest feature in an organism is <1nm.	DetlefK	Nov 2015	#226
I love listening to him Science.	pinstikfartherin	Nov 2015	#4
+1	Person 2713	Nov 2015	#43
if there is a god	madokie	Nov 2015	#5
"Man has rarely if ever dreamed up a god superior to himself."	hobbit709	Nov 2015	#8
Well that sure is a great statement.	AllyCat	Nov 2015	#15
That's either Lazarus Long or Jubal Harshaw speaking from Robert A. Heinlein's typewriter !	Bernardo de La Paz	Nov 2015	#18
Money quote:	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#74
I used to be	LittleGirl	Nov 2015	#7
I think there is a separation	leftynyc	Nov 2015	#14
Very brief and powerful statement. Many here wont understand it.	7962	Nov 2015	#28
imho, "spirituality" is an evolutionary holdover	mopinko	Nov 2015	#37
Disagree	leftynyc	Nov 2015	#44
i agree	restorefreedom	Nov 2015	#47
I'm sure it has	leftynyc	Nov 2015	#56
i never thought of that regarding judaism	restorefreedom	Nov 2015	#59
Agree	leftynyc	Nov 2015	#61
ugh. sad but probably true. nt	restorefreedom	Nov 2015	#62
And certainly some folks- like 12 steppers- are comfortable doing all sorts of semantic gymnastics	Warren DeMontague	Nov 2015	#167
Yep, The opening scene of 2001 a Space Odyssey captured it quite nicely	snooper2	Nov 2015	#182
Same here.. took years to find myself	mountain grammy	Nov 2015	#33
Of all the ways to divide people into two groups	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#76
Cosmos had a big impact on me as well.	mountain grammy	Nov 2015	#229
Unfortunately, that requires a couple of very uncomfortable admissions that theists aren't ready to	Warpy	Nov 2015	#106
What designed God?	GeorgeGist	Nov 2015	#9
Magic Man done it?	caraher	Nov 2015	#11
God always existed, because bible.	Orrex	Nov 2015	#13
It is far more plausible that a mechanistic universe	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#77
And even that seems implausible when you think about it. We're used to everything having...	ChisolmTrailDem	Nov 2015	#181
there is no time for god...	snooper2	Nov 2015	#183
Supergod. n/t	whopis01	Nov 2015	#163
K&R!	stonecutter357	Nov 2015	#12
Prayer works better if you take the antibiotics.	IHateTheGOP	Nov 2015	#16
Would you like the Noah's Ark antibiotics or the ones that were intelligently designed?	Bernardo de La Paz	Nov 2015	#19
Being "created" by something was a way for early manking to make sense of the world.	ladyVet	Nov 2015	#20
You're in the finest of company.	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#79
I am proud to be in the company of thinking beings. ;)	ladyVet	Nov 2015	#156
Douglas Adams -	FreedomRain	Nov 2015	#154
Adams had so many wonderful and clever quotes.	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#210
We have a lot to learn as a species.	AngryAmish	Nov 2015	#21
That ain't right	Nac Mac Feegle	Nov 2015	#23
I gots a question.	-none	Nov 2015	#24
That never stops things like that from being spread around as truth!	7962	Nov 2015	#29
Maybe the quote is	Travis_0004	Nov 2015	#125
...	AngryAmish	Nov 2015	#126
Another good one. But not as good as your LAST one!	7962	Nov 2015	#130
I can not get my head around that quote	fasttense	Nov 2015	#30
the only thing you're missing is that it isn't a real quote	fishwax	Nov 2015	#32
That	ryan_cats	Nov 2015	#42
It is a joke, yes.	aidbo	Nov 2015	#152
Why would you post something that clearly wrongly attributes a quote to someone?	tabasco	Nov 2015	#119
Are you new here?	AngryAmish	Nov 2015	#121
That's not an answer.	tabasco	Nov 2015	#169
You will get nothing, and long for it's absence.	AngryAmish	Nov 2015	#171
There is nothing wrong with me.	tabasco	Nov 2015	#177
It's a joke	Takket	Nov 2015	#142
Yet we think we can be stewards of the planet	The2ndWheel	Nov 2015	#26
How did life start?	robersl	Nov 2015	#27
And it also should have happened elsewhere	7962	Nov 2015	#31
Sooo.	kwolf68	Nov 2015	#48
No, thats not what I said. Just that its not an absolute.	7962	Nov 2015	#63
I think he said we have no benevolent god.	PassingFair	Nov 2015	#92
If you believe in imaginary sky wizards then you will believe anything.	hobbit709	Nov 2015	#54
If you dont believe in something, you'll fall for anything.	7962	Nov 2015	#64
The laws of nature that have been discovered in the scientific era	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#81
Not believing in "god" doesn't mean	skepticscott	Nov 2015	#165
Possibly the most idiotic piece of bumper sticker non-wisdom ever floated by the bs brigade.	Warren DeMontague	Nov 2015	#168
The "BS Brigade" is just as much those who rush to deride any who have a belief.	7962	Nov 2015	#173
Yeah facts and evidence make people cocky.	Rex	Nov 2015	#184
yet there is no evidence that a higher power doesnt exist. Enjoy your high horse.	7962	Nov 2015	#187
The rules of debate require those putting the affirmative case	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#219
you're joking, here, right?	Warren DeMontague	Nov 2015	#223
What is "God" and where did it come from? nt	ChisolmTrailDem	Nov 2015	#186
Faith means you get to use magic to answer all your questions.	Rex	Nov 2015	#191
Irrelevant response.	Warren DeMontague	Nov 2015	#222
No, it should NOT have a place in any science curriculum. Not at all.	7962	Nov 2015	#224
Some would rather live at the shallow end of the pool.	Rex	Nov 2015	#185
If "seeing and touching" is what it takes for you to believe,	7962	Nov 2015	#188
You don't get it.	Rex	Nov 2015	#189
Oh, I get it. As I said before, enjoy your lofty perch above the rest of us!	7962	Nov 2015	#213
Lofty perch? I see you have no clue at all.	Rex	Nov 2015	#217
So of course you resort to insulting my education. Typical.	7962	Nov 2015	#225
lol - u think god is a sky wizard	saturnsring	Nov 2015	#129
Thats the favorite cute term used by the non believing folk	7962	Nov 2015	#131
CORRECTION: IMAGINARY sky wizard.	hobbit709	Nov 2015	#137
Dude (or Dudette), we've only been looking for, what, forty years?	ladyVet	Nov 2015	#157
Who made the intelligent creator?	fasttense	Nov 2015	#34
Who set off the Big Bang?	robersl	Nov 2015	#39
You are Not a full creationist? So, you are taking the real ID position?	fasttense	Nov 2015	#53
Evidence for God	robersl	Nov 2015	#57
Yes I can prove there is NO God	fasttense	Nov 2015	#67
Evidence for God	robersl	Nov 2015	#71
It is not somehow, science can give you the play by play down to what the atoms are doing.	Rex	Nov 2015	#75
I'm not knocking science	robersl	Nov 2015	#78
Not at all hard to hash out. You have billions of years and trillions of objects colliding together	Rex	Nov 2015	#82
So	robersl	Nov 2015	#83
Hands? What are you talking about?	Rex	Nov 2015	#87
But now you're left with the harder problem of explaining where God came from ...	GeorgeGist	Nov 2015	#141
Your idea of evidence is really nothing but spin.	fasttense	Nov 2015	#228
One school of cosmological thought	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#80
Also the mere fact of thousands of religions in the world, compounded with all the unknown	Rex	Nov 2015	#89
Not for anyone who understands the basis of	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#90
I agree it should be a clue as big as their mind can wrap around the idea.	Rex	Nov 2015	#94
The problem arises when it can be shown	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#97
True, it goes deep to the core of their belief system.	Rex	Nov 2015	#99
I always come back to Carl Sagan,	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#101
Could not agree more!	Rex	Nov 2015	#111
A complex universe must have been designed by a complex intelligence.	LiberalAndProud	Nov 2015	#143
Yes, that's how I feel about the Big Bang	robersl	Nov 2015	#178
Except that we can observe evidence of a big bang. Now. Today.	LiberalAndProud	Nov 2015	#214
Emergent behavior.	immoderate	Nov 2015	#38
Smug answer, sloppy thinking	robersl	Nov 2015	#40
Emergent behavior is a way of describing what things do.	immoderate	Nov 2015	#46
Emergence is fascinating	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#96
I started with encounters with Conway's program, referenced in Peter Gleick's book on Chaos.	immoderate	Nov 2015	#109
Agree about Darwin.	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#112
No, one-cell living things have extremely complex cell structures NOW.	jeff47	Nov 2015	#45
So when you say "Ta-da"	robersl	Nov 2015	#55
No, it's an example of how the more complex structures appeared.	jeff47	Nov 2015	#60
Anthropomorphizing evolution?	robersl	Nov 2015	#65
So you don't know what the word "anthropomorphizing" means.	jeff47	Nov 2015	#66
Hmm	robersl	Nov 2015	#68
No, you actually didn't cite any miracles.	jeff47	Nov 2015	#69
that is what often hangs me up is the beginning of the beginning of the universe	restorefreedom	Nov 2015	#49
The problem is that you have a problem of infinite regress, something had to have caused that...	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#110
for me it is more an interesting academic discussion	restorefreedom	Nov 2015	#115
The thing is that the Big Bang is practically the only gap left for the "God of the gaps" to occupy.	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#117
true, but the possibility also exists	restorefreedom	Nov 2015	#124
Something must have existed before the Big Bang	NonMetro	Nov 2015	#151
Nothing is created or destroyed, only changed. nt	ladyVet	Nov 2015	#158
The Big Bang, from what we can tell, is the literal beginning, there was no "before"...	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#160
I believe most scientists won't agree with you, including Neil deGrasse Tyson.	cpwm17	Nov 2015	#208
He argues for a multiverse, not an infinite universe, those are different things...	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#209
Our Universe likely came from the same previous existence	cpwm17	Nov 2015	#215
They could have triggered it maybe, but I doubt any information traveled from previous universes...	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#216
Certainly details about the Multiverse are speculative	cpwm17	Nov 2015	#220
The Argument from Personal Incredulity	trotsky	Nov 2015	#73
Please spare me the condescending babble	robersl	Nov 2015	#85
Did you look in a mirror when you said that?	hobbit709	Nov 2015	#86
LOL no doubt...	trotsky	Nov 2015	#91
Good one	robersl	Nov 2015	#95
Do you know what a logical fallacy is?	trotsky	Nov 2015	#88
If	robersl	Nov 2015	#93
Let me help you.	trotsky	Nov 2015	#98
Really?	robersl	Nov 2015	#107
It is unfortunate you are unable to see your error.	trotsky	Nov 2015	#113
Can you expound on this please?	opiate69	Nov 2015	#100
Mars and Venus	robersl	Nov 2015	#105
Well...	opiate69	Nov 2015	#108
You seem to forget that life on Earth is fine tuned for conditions on Earth, not the other way...	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#114
The "Finely-Tuned Universe" argument has been ongoing for a century now	robersl	Nov 2015	#179
The most important word in that uncredited excerpt:	trotsky	Nov 2015	#180
Hey, don't take it so hard	robersl	Nov 2015	#192
LOL!!! YOU are the one who thinks you have all the answers! nt	ChisolmTrailDem	Nov 2015	#193
LOL	trotsky	Nov 2015	#194
Let me help you	robersl	Nov 2015	#198
So you're telling me to take every question you've asked,	trotsky	Nov 2015	#199
Study on it	robersl	Nov 2015	#200
Probably not - I mean, I'm really dumb, according to you. Super dumb.	trotsky	Nov 2015	#201
I do not recall calling you dumb, and	robersl	Nov 2015	#203
Well then, with that admission you just sabotaged your entire argument.	trotsky	Nov 2015	#204
Even if that assertion is true as you excerpted it(uncredited I might add), I don't...	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#207
There are millions of planets in this galaxy; many are at the right distance from their sun	muriel_volestrangler	Nov 2015	#172
Galactic jizz. nt	Guy Whitey Corngood	Nov 2015	#116
To get the general principles...	gcomeau	Nov 2015	#123
And an article on more recent thinking about the origins of cells, and the use of energy:	muriel_volestrangler	Nov 2015	#175
What an interesting article. Thanks! n/t	trotsky	Nov 2015	#196
Do you understand the depth of billions of years?	Rex	Nov 2015	#139
most everyone agrees that it was very improbable	quaker bill	Nov 2015	#227
Humans at the top of the food chain?	mountain grammy	Nov 2015	#36
Tao vs Zen	Octafish	Nov 2015	#41
Intelligent Design is hokem	kwolf68	Nov 2015	#50
Loved Neil on with Bill Moyer speaking about Religion, Science and the Universe.	Stellar	Nov 2015	#51
That was a great segment. nt	valerief	Nov 2015	#52
There's fallacy in Tyson's argument too.	hunter	Nov 2015	#58
We have separate forums on this site devoted to discussing religion.	BlueStater	Nov 2015	#70
The segment is more about how religion affects politics and our	valerief	Nov 2015	#103
Listening to Tyson, Dawkins, or Lawrence Krauss	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#84
Commie	randys1	Nov 2015	#102
Religion exists only because humans are afraid of death	tabasco	Nov 2015	#104
The philosophical fail is so strong, it's depressing.	KittyWampus	Nov 2015	#122
you have to assume that god wants you to live forever	saturnsring	Nov 2015	#127
I have yet to hear a single evidence-based argument for the existence of God	n2doc	Nov 2015	#133
How About This	robersl	Nov 2015	#145
Descartes would be proud of that	tkmorris	Nov 2015	#149
Thank you	robersl	Nov 2015	#176
Touché! Foiled by his own argument! LOL! nt	ChisolmTrailDem	Nov 2015	#195
let's make this weird!	MisterP	Nov 2015	#148
An intelligent designer does not have to be benevolent	IronLionZion	Nov 2015	#134
Adventures of God...	hunter	Nov 2015	#147
Please, enough with the bearded old man/God digs	robersl	Nov 2015	#174
Do you think it matters what God looks like?	hunter	Nov 2015	#190
No, it doesn't matter	robersl	Nov 2015	#197
Not necessarily - the True Believers have an answer for all this -	LiberalElite	Nov 2015	#135
It is my belief that there IS a creator.	retrowire	Nov 2015	#138
The man's got a point....	Spitfire of ATJ	Nov 2015	#140
Boom! Mic drop,	blackspade	Nov 2015	#144
Since we are discussing WOO	OxQQme	Nov 2015	#150
I don't believe we're important enough to have a creator. Humans are fairly close to being nothing.	BlueJazz	Nov 2015	#153
I love Neil DeGrasse Tyson!	Initech	Nov 2015	#155
Atheists can be pretty quick to congratulate themselves on debate points ...	King_Klonopin	Nov 2015	#161
We know that what one observes in chemistry, biochemistry and physiology	cpwm17	Nov 2015	#205
Nicely put.	hifiguy	Nov 2015	#218
Actually those only disprove a benevolent god, however, the fact is that...	Humanist_Activist	Nov 2015	#211
They should actually call it Stupid Design	eridani	Nov 2015	#164
To exist is to exist somewhere	Shankapotomus	Nov 2015	#166
That's a good point. n/t	cpwm17	Nov 2015	#230
Many of the main characters in the New Testament died miserable deaths	Kaleva	Nov 2015	#231

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