General Discussion

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)

89. Well, GZ has at least two who show up on every thread

Fri May 18, 2012, 11:39 AM

May 2012

vigorously defending him and slandering Trayvon.

My theory of the whole thing? GZ grabbed Trayvon to demand he identify and explain himself, and Trayvon made a move to protect himself or get GZ to let go, and that's when GZ attacked him in earnest and then shot him.

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So, I Have The Right To Stalk Someone and If They Fight Back, I Can Kill Them, Claiming Self Defense [View all] Yavin4 May 2012 OP

If they attack you first and you are in fear of your life as your face gets pounded then maybe so. dkf May 2012 #1

Huh...maybe I should have stayed in my car since I told the dispatcher the man looked suspicous. vaberella May 2012 #9

+1 ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #12

Unfortunately, it's not illegal to disobey a dispatcher. randome May 2012 #26

I'm not talking about disobeying a dispatcher. I'm talking about finding the kid a threat. vaberella May 2012 #57

he was not threatened noiretextatique May 2012 #73

I completely agree. randome May 2012 #82

i pray for a good, aggressive prosecutor noiretextatique May 2012 #85

Bringing up his past should help the FBI if they want to pursue this as a hate crime. randome May 2012 #93

"fear for your life" = scary black man noiretextatique May 2012 #16

Yes. That's pretty much what it all boils down to -imo (nt) PotatoChip May 2012 #22

how many men, black or otherwise, do you let beat on you before you fight back? StarryNight May 2012 #165

if he had stayed in the car noiretextatique May 2012 #187

If you chase someone down you become the agressor in a sane state uponit7771 May 2012 #20

Bullshit Blue_Roses May 2012 #33

The girlfriend's testimony about what Trayvon said is second-hand and may be excluded amandabeech May 2012 #170

"face gets pounded"? riverwalker May 2012 #50

zimmerman apologists noiretextatique May 2012 #76

In your world, a rapist can stalk and attack someone Yavin4 May 2012 #56

YES...especially if the rapist is white noiretextatique May 2012 #68

You again. Taking up for another RW freak. kestrel91316 May 2012 #86

it does get tiresome, doesn't it? CatWoman May 2012 #102

I and many, MANY others have tried alert after alert. HughBeaumont May 2012 #132

I want to know the answer to this question too! JustAnotherGen May 2012 #2

No, that's not how it works. slackmaster May 2012 #3

Apparently so. Even if you have been told that the police don't need you to stalk ScreamingMeemie May 2012 #4

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman attacked Trayvon True Earthling May 2012 #5

stalking is illegal in some places noiretextatique May 2012 #14

It's illegal in all 50 states and in the Military's UCMJ. stevenleser May 2012 #75

In Fla, "stalking" requires repeated actions. SEe. Fla. crim law. 784.048 (2) (3). nt. amandabeech May 2012 #171

Ok, fess up. You're Zimmerman's dad, right? kestrel91316 May 2012 #87

OK, fess up. You are Martin's 1st cousin twice removed right? ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #113

You ABSOLUTELY can approach anyone in your neighborhood and ask them questions. Romulox May 2012 #6

sure...and if the suspicious person kicks your ass noiretextatique May 2012 #11

if you attack someone who has not put their hands on you first, StarryNight May 2012 #34

any evidence that Martin attacked first? noiretextatique May 2012 #37

didn't say that. we don't know who touched who first. and neither you nor I know StarryNight May 2012 #163

No one has a right to creep a stranger obamanut2012 May 2012 #134

well, if they don't have a right to do that, then they sure don't have a right to attack someone StarryNight May 2012 #164

Sure, and if they run away from you, Mariana May 2012 #41

Lots of "ifs" there. I'm not here to defend Zimmerman, just to get basic premises correct. nt Romulox May 2012 #80

Not too many "ifs". Mariana May 2012 #104

No, you can't obamanut2012 May 2012 #131

I get the feeling that Zimmerman wasn't exactly looking like a Mr. Rogers type that night Blue_Tires May 2012 #138

And I can tell you to FUCK OFF also. So what?? Logical May 2012 #148

Isn't great?! That's what Florida grants you and DUers support it. n/t vaberella May 2012 #7

only if you are white or a white latino...close enough noiretextatique May 2012 #8

+1 obamanut2012 May 2012 #135

apparently there are DUers who beleive bowens43 May 2012 #10

I think of a lot of what you're interpreting as 'support'... randome May 2012 #29

Well, GZ has at least two who show up on every thread kestrel91316 May 2012 #89

That's how it sounds to me, too. randome May 2012 #95

There has always been a segment on DU that supports the gun/death merchants Hugabear May 2012 #120

Pretty much. smokey nj May 2012 #13

seriously, what was Martin "defending himself" against? someone asking him StarryNight May 2012 #39

Um, George Zimmerman. You know the man who'd been following him. smokey nj May 2012 #48

why do you need to "defend" against following? you just keep walking. especially if you are a StarryNight May 2012 #167

He was defending himself (a child) from a creepy stalker that may or may not have been a sexual Dragonfli May 2012 #53

FAIL. A single punch doesn't justify a shooting, particularly if kestrel91316 May 2012 #90

So you think it is find to physically attack someone you believe they are following you? ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #99

I think it's FINE to verbally attack someone I believe is following me CatWoman May 2012 #103

There those here saying the Martin had the right to PHYSICALLY attack Zimmerman ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #105

ok, so explain it to me Blue_Tires May 2012 #141

You do realize that your are making the reasonable person case, just like Zimmerman ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #151

it's all in the manner of how you're being followed... Blue_Tires May 2012 #139

Not legally... ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #150

So why did it work for Bernie Goetz? Blue_Tires May 2012 #173

The jury believed that he had been threatened with IIRC the screwdrivers that were being carried. ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #179

just how martin had been threatened.... Blue_Tires May 2012 #181

Not sure where you are getting that... ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #183

it's a fine line... Blue_Tires May 2012 #184

you're african-american? Blue_Tires May 2012 #186

Yes, as was my late wife ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #188

Stop by sometime... Blue_Tires May 2012 #189

I'm subscribed there ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #190

You can follow and verbally accost someone in a non-threatening manner. hack89 May 2012 #15

but he did accost him, according to you noiretextatique May 2012 #18

Accost =/= threaten or assault hack89 May 2012 #23

How do you know any accosting was done in "a non threatening manner"? Fumesucker May 2012 #27

zimmerman went from "these people always get away" and "fucking coons" noiretextatique May 2012 #51

I don't know. Just pointing out what the jury will hear from his lawyers. hack89 May 2012 #72

you used the word accost, not me noiretextatique May 2012 #43

Your logic makes perfect sense and I agree with it hack89 May 2012 #78

i understand...i also know that juries are comprised of people noiretextatique May 2012 #79

So you are good with someone escalating a verbal confrontation to physical violence? ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #106

Is it possible to put a reasonable person in fear of their life without breaking any law? Fumesucker May 2012 #19

That is a question for the jury hack89 May 2012 #24

The "other side of the story" is the dead child. TBF May 2012 #44

I don't ignore it. hack89 May 2012 #64

Well then we'll ignore that dead child and go with the badass. TBF May 2012 #92

Look - explaining what the law actually says is not justifying Trayvon's death hack89 May 2012 #94

How the judge/jury interprets the law is what matters counselor. nt TBF May 2012 #96

No shit - but the law cannot be stretched beyond recognition to get "justice" hack89 May 2012 #101

I don't think they have a problem here. The only folks stretching are the TBF May 2012 #117

They have a hell of a problem hack89 May 2012 #121

Zimmerman can talk about ponies prancing in the sky if he wants to - TBF May 2012 #122

Zimmerman does not have to say a word hack89 May 2012 #123

Zimmerman being told on tape to stay in his vehicle & the dead child. TBF May 2012 #124

Ignoring the 911 operator is not a crime hack89 May 2012 #125

all i want is Zimmerman's official statement to police that night Blue_Tires May 2012 #176

of course it is noiretextatique May 2012 #47

Nope, I had someone arrested for following me obamanut2012 May 2012 #136

What was the exact charge that he was convicted on? nt hack89 May 2012 #146

Under florida law ctaylors6 May 2012 #17

+1 uponit7771 May 2012 #21

"Repeatedly follows" is why Zimmerman was not charged with stalking. nt hack89 May 2012 #25

We are not in court and stalking has another meaning besides the legal definition.. Fumesucker May 2012 #30

Yes - but what happens in court is all that matters. nt hack89 May 2012 #35

Then why worry about how people are using language outside of court? n/t Fumesucker May 2012 #42

Because it contributes to unrealistic expectations as to what will happen at trial. hack89 May 2012 #67

He did repeatedly follow, it doesn't have to happen over days hours or weeks uponit7771 May 2012 #46

He was not specifically charged with stalking hack89 May 2012 #62

True, they don't have to charge him to prove the chain of events and whos at fault uponit7771 May 2012 #65

"The initial act of felon aggression was the stalking" is a huge assumption on your part hack89 May 2012 #88

Florida Stalking Statute amandabeech May 2012 #174

I think a case could be made that Zimmerman had a habit of stalking people of color. intheflow May 2012 #147

I'd keep my ass in the car Aerows May 2012 #28

That seems to be the case ArcticFox May 2012 #31

Falsely framed, but you already knew that ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #32

I had the same thought professor Yupster May 2012 #40

The situation with Zimmerman and Martin, though Aerows May 2012 #63

No doubt about that Yupster May 2012 #70

Cops, who tend to overcharge only asked for manslaughter ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #84

"Cops" tend to overcharge no one, as they do not have the capacity to do do. Ikonoklast May 2012 #107

Ok, cops tend to recommend/request charges on the high side ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #110

Cops give evidence, reports, and testimony to a DA or a grand jury. Ikonoklast May 2012 #115

IIRC the Sanford PD requested/recommended that Zimmerman be charged with Manslaughter ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #116

Law enforcement do not charge anyone obamanut2012 May 2012 #137

Already discussed several posts up ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #152

Make it not political ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #81

I don't see that as political Aerows May 2012 #91

I too believe that Zimmerman should be found guilty, most likely of manslaughter ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #97

Incorrect. We have clear evidence that Zimmerman Pursued Martin. Yavin4 May 2012 #60

Here's how Florida defines stalking: Kaleva May 2012 #36

Yeap, ZMans following was willful and malicious and he followed him for a while uponit7771 May 2012 #38

But it wasn't repeated following of Trayvon. Kaleva May 2012 #52

Yes it was, he was even told at one time to stay in the car...repeated doesn't have to happen over.. uponit7771 May 2012 #55

He wasn't told to stay in the car. Kaleva May 2012 #69

he had a pattern of stalking black males noiretextatique May 2012 #71

Which would be profiling and he may be charged with that. Kaleva May 2012 #83

Z took more than Oneka May 2012 #77

Yes, it is that simple, I disagree but I lack the proper pistol to be manly enough for them Dragonfli May 2012 #45

Stalking is illegal in Florida, but no one was stalked in the Martin/Zimmerman case. ZombieHorde May 2012 #49

The "repeated instances" can happen in a short time, stalking DOES apply here.... uponit7771 May 2012 #54

How does the law define a single instance? nt ZombieHorde May 2012 #58

The act itself and then the continuation is repeated uponit7771 May 2012 #61

Is that the law? That seems extremely silly. ZombieHorde May 2012 #74

Can you cite a case or reg for that? amandabeech May 2012 #175

See Serial Killer Richard Ramirez Yavin4 May 2012 #156

He was called the Night Stalker because it sounds catchy, not necessarily because ZombieHorde May 2012 #168

yes.... according to some, you should be free to kill others fascisthunter May 2012 #59

yes, that's exactly what some DUers are arguing CreekDog May 2012 #66

If Zimmerman was on the ground, HockeyMom May 2012 #98

You might want to review the earlier posts on what intermediate range means ProgressiveProfessor May 2012 #100

"Intermediate range" could be anywhere from 1 to 18 inches according to one source. Kaleva May 2012 #111

Apparently so. Both in Florida and on DU. Bake May 2012 #108

Nah. I said that a month and a half ago......... socialist_n_TN May 2012 #129

It depends on the colors of the persons involved Blue_Tires May 2012 #109

+1 La Lioness Priyanka May 2012 #126

only if you are white. really doubt it would work if you were black. La Lioness Priyanka May 2012 #112

Number one Life Long Dem May 2012 #114

NOT WITH DEADLY FORCE........ socialist_n_TN May 2012 #130

Trayvon was stalked obamanut2012 May 2012 #140

Yep that is EXACTLY what they are saying Rex May 2012 #118

Yes. That is it indeed. Incredible. uppityperson May 2012 #119

Zimmerman didn't "Stalk" Martin Taitertots May 2012 #127

yuh... he just "walked up to him"....lol fascisthunter May 2012 #133

Well, he certainly wasn't on horseback Taitertots May 2012 #144

what about the following in the car before that? Blue_Tires May 2012 #142

So, Serial Killer Richard Ramirez Didn't Stalk Anyone?? Yavin4 May 2012 #155

thank you! Nine May 2012 #157

WTF does Richard Ramirez have to do with this case and/or the laws of Florida? Taitertots May 2012 #161

I believe whatever my TV tells me. Is that what some DUers here are arguing? just1voice May 2012 #128

If you follow someone because you mistakenly or even stupidly suspect they may be up to no good, Vattel May 2012 #143

So, How Does The Person Being Followed Know That The Stalker Is Non-Violent? Yavin4 May 2012 #153

You tell me. Vattel May 2012 #159

If you are female, certainly. eridani May 2012 #191

depends on what the Race of the person you are going after is JI7 May 2012 #145

No hfojvt May 2012 #149

There Is A Famous LA Serial Killer Named Richard Ramirez Yavin4 May 2012 #154

Maybe Zimmerman put his hands on Martin and Martin responded? soccer1 May 2012 #158

Yes, that is definitely possible. slackmaster May 2012 #162

Maybe, but, again, the hearsay rule prevents a third party from reporting what Trayvon said to her. amandabeech May 2012 #177

Hearsay exceptions soccer1 May 2012 #178

Are you thinking about "dying declaration?" amandabeech May 2012 #180

Exceptions to hearsay rule soccer1 May 2012 #182

We don't know what happened treestar May 2012 #160

Yes, Zimmerman could have avoided shooting Trayvon. No doubt about that. soccer1 May 2012 #169

Lax gun laws mean bullies are armed. daaron May 2012 #166

You need to be a non-minority and have some pretext, but yes. gulliver May 2012 #172

The dumbing down of DU continues. flvegan May 2012 #185