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I don't even feel guilty about it. bluedigger May 2012 #1
There is certainly no point to guilt. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #3
Exactly. The point is to acknowledge it. arbusto_baboso May 2012 #11
And then? Of what does the "fix" consist and why is it necessary for me or "everyone" to HiPointDem May 2012 #113
The fact that you can even ask those questions... arbusto_baboso May 2012 #114
Personal insult in place of answering the question. Because I suspect you can't. HiPointDem May 2012 #115
Be honest now. arbusto_baboso May 2012 #117
Yes, I *do* want an answer. And no, my questions weren't insulting, to you personally least HiPointDem May 2012 #118
I think you got a pretty rational and common sense answer TheKentuckian May 2012 #192
Except I didn't ask about the problem. I asked: "Of what does the "fix" consist and why is HiPointDem May 2012 #201
What was insulting about the questions? Llewlladdwr May 2012 #119
I guess so, as no answer comes except from another poster. HiPointDem May 2012 #133
The fix will depend on the particular situation. jeff47 May 2012 #122
Bingo. Not that hard, right? nt stevenleser May 2012 #125
Oh, no, so easy! Just like a movie! HiPointDem May 2012 #128
You're saying that "the fix" is about everyone "doing the right thing" in their particular HiPointDem May 2012 #127
Yes. Because we can't control everyone else. jeff47 May 2012 #129
We can't control anyone else, can we? I wonder what the point of the Civil Rights Movement HiPointDem May 2012 #130
Today isn't 1950 jeff47 May 2012 #134
There aren't? Perhaps you didn't read the addition I made to the post you responded to. HiPointDem May 2012 #135
What addition? jeff47 May 2012 #139
reread the post you just responded to. HiPointDem May 2012 #142
Let me know when you're done editing your posts. jeff47 May 2012 #145
i was already done, which is why i asked you to reread. HiPointDem May 2012 #148
There's way more than one privilege involved. jeff47 May 2012 #154
The implementation is not a product of individual police's "white privilege" except at the margins. HiPointDem May 2012 #156
and i will add, by separate post, as you took exceptions to my edits, that the idea that HiPointDem May 2012 #159
You really stepped off the deep end on this one. kwassa May 2012 #188
Not bullshit at all. Let's say all white americans suddenly became color-blind tomorrow and were HiPointDem May 2012 #202
If you think color-blind is the solution, then you don't understand the problem. kwassa May 2012 #221
I didn't say it was the solution -- I asked you what would change tomorrow if people weren't HiPointDem May 2012 #222
Um, you apparently didn't understand my argument. kwassa May 2012 #224
i think i understood what you said just fine. i don't think you made an argument. rather, HiPointDem May 2012 #228
Oh ... I disagree! 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #162
I doubt that "recognition of their white privilege" was why they were there. HiPointDem May 2012 #164
Come on ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #178
I'm suggesting that recognition of discriminatory policies against blacks is not the same thing HiPointDem May 2012 #179
It most certainly is ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #184
Is it a privilege to eat lunch in a restaurant or sit on any seat in a bus? HiPointDem May 2012 #200
Yes, it is a privilege to eat lunch in a restaurant or sit in any seat of a bus. kwassa May 2012 #226
see, i'm just trying to discuss, and you're being hostile. why? You *are* implying these two HiPointDem May 2012 #227
I think you are missing the point of ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #166
That's because I'm not a white male. HiPointDem May 2012 #180
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #182
No, I'm a white female. And as a female, I think the concept of "male privilege" is also suspect. HiPointDem May 2012 #207
Some don't acknowledge the "setting" or claim it doesn't exist, that's the target of the article uponit7771 May 2012 #12
it is nice to have people on the inside. stonecutter357 May 2012 #81
"HARD" is a relative term! USA hard is not Africa hard. Logical May 2012 #193
This is an excellent metaphor. Brickbat May 2012 #2
I'm not so impressed. bluedigger May 2012 #23
In poker, the assumption is that the deck isn't stacked or marked and the dealer is honest. bigbrother05 May 2012 #69
Just because people can't recognize the privilage doesn't mean it doesn't exist uponit7771 May 2012 #204
No Reason for Guilt but... chickypea May 2012 #4
I would change that to "Straight, White, Neurotypical Male" hifiguy May 2012 #5
I agree with what you are saying. I believe it has the potential to be a can of worms, but I RadiationTherapy May 2012 #7
No problem. As I wrote, I'd just add "neurotypical" hifiguy May 2012 #9
that concept is addressed through the starting points and character creation magical thyme May 2012 #13
I would bet you're not ugly. Zoeisright May 2012 #223
Yes, humans are remarkably gregarious, and dependent upon sociability HereSince1628 May 2012 #28
A pretty accurate way of looking at it bhikkhu May 2012 #6
As a white working class person who's never broken the law, never gone through a bankruptcy, but HiPointDem May 2012 #213
I think the larger theme is that "privilege" is invisible to those who enjoy it bhikkhu May 2012 #220
as a swm i'm wondering when i will be showered with all this fortune and ease that i seem leftyohiolib May 2012 #8
Indeed. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #15
agreed sometimes i cant sleep from the panic attacks i get over how easy i have it leftyohiolib May 2012 #22
I think you're confusing "how easy I have it" with "how difficult others have it". LanternWaste May 2012 #33
how difficult others have it implies how easy i have it it's a bs over generalized blanket leftyohiolib May 2012 #218
Imagine chickypea May 2012 #17
Please, by all means... Llewlladdwr May 2012 #19
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #181
and what privilege might that be? leftyohiolib May 2012 #32
Here's this part again: RadiationTherapy May 2012 #18
ok, if you say. if i do poorly it's b/c i made poor choices but everyone else who is doing poorly leftyohiolib May 2012 #29
No, you don't get it. jeff47 May 2012 #116
So if it all comes down to choices.... Llewlladdwr May 2012 #121
In the choices that are presented to you, and in the outcomes of those choices jeff47 May 2012 #126
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #136
Well, let's go with an extreme example. jeff47 May 2012 #143
A lot of straight white dues have done much better, with less effort, in the same field as Oprah??? Romulox May 2012 #172
And when they make "bad choices" their money & position allows them to continue doing it HiPointDem May 2012 #215
Exactly. You're in the same boat with the rest of the working class. Zalatix May 2012 #199
Dubya should know.. and good ole salt of the earth Mitt. ananda May 2012 #10
to some extent this is true, but still i sometimes ask... KG May 2012 #14
and you know what that says hfojvt May 2012 #16
You are conflating the metaphoric "difficulty setting" with the rest of the very complex forces RadiationTherapy May 2012 #20
the outliers are necessary hfojvt May 2012 #53
"Very complex forces" = CLASS. You can't just ignore it away. nt Romulox May 2012 #54
I am well aware of class and its complexities and it is a very important part of my worldview. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #58
Thank you hjofvt! Llewlladdwr May 2012 #21
I knew it wouldn't be long. n/t 1StrongBlackMan May 2012 #30
It shouldn't have taken this long. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #146
No, it doesn't. jeff47 May 2012 #120
Equality of Opportunity is not Equality of Condition malthaussen May 2012 #24
Perhaps you can explain it to us. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #25
Maybe Malthaussen feels differently, but I would personally decline to "prove" privilege exists. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #36
Sure, my pleasure malthaussen May 2012 #47
Thank you very much for your reply malthaussen. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #59
I doubt anyone would make that claim... malthaussen May 2012 #65
Bringing class in makes it more difficult to argue for the existense of 'white privilege'. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #73
Institutional advantages, probably so. malthaussen May 2012 #78
Wait aminute, I thought the whole point of 'white privilege' was that it was institutional? Llewlladdwr May 2012 #90
Nope, just modified it malthaussen May 2012 #93
Not a problem. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #94
The advantage it provides is generally better outcomes from the same situations jeff47 May 2012 #132
the problem, of course, is that there is no "we" hfojvt May 2012 #70
That's a different subject, nyet? malthaussen May 2012 #74
I had a different take on hjofvt's final point. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #84
I don't see it as a different subject hfojvt May 2012 #85
+1! NT Llewlladdwr May 2012 #91
I regret I have to log off now malthaussen May 2012 #92
well a good discussion should take several days hfojvt May 2012 #232
As I said before JonLP24 May 2012 #219
that article might have a lot more impact hfojvt May 2012 #231
As I said JonLP24 May 2012 #233
And never will gaspee May 2012 #38
And yet, if inequality of condition is contraindicative of the premise? lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #152
k&r Starry Messenger May 2012 #26
I don't know. randome May 2012 #27
I suppose it would gaspee May 2012 #35
So life is easier for a straight white male from a desperately poor family, living in a trailer park Nye Bevan May 2012 #31
Yes, that is exactly the point of the article. Thanks for putting it so simply. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #34
You're very welcome. Nye Bevan May 2012 #40
Well, you'll have to explore CLASS if you think it matters. If not, that is a fair assessment, imo. Romulox May 2012 #46
Strawmen often are simple. nt NoGOPZone May 2012 #64
nope. Scout May 2012 #55
Comparing like to like, as far as class goes, malthaussen May 2012 #57
I would say that in this case the SBM has greater opportunity. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #61
But on the other hand malthaussen May 2012 #66
Well, this is the point where I think the 'white privilege' argument breaks down completely. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #76
Ah, but is privilege only about "improvement?" malthaussen May 2012 #88
I know you have to leave... Llewlladdwr May 2012 #96
Being able to get a job isn't a privilege, it's survival unless you're independently wealthy. HiPointDem May 2012 #216
No- you are reading it incorrectly Marrah_G May 2012 #95
Because SWMs never face prejudice? Is that really your argument? Llewlladdwr May 2012 #97
If you really think you face prejudie and racism to the extent a person of color does. .. Marrah_G May 2012 #98
Probably not Marrah_G. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #108
Actually I haven't detirmined anything about your life at all Marrah_G May 2012 #110
Or triangles or something, yeah. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #112
Please point me to meaningful scholarship program for only men. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #177
Um, actually, it is color/orientation to a large degree... bullsnarfle May 2012 #107
It's pointless gaspee May 2012 #37
Yeah, it's obviously the SWMs who are lacking in empathy. Llewlladdwr May 2012 #39
Oh please gaspee May 2012 #41
Thank you for illustrating my point gaspee. NT Llewlladdwr May 2012 #42
This privileged, straight white male Nye Bevan May 2012 #43
Was that truly necessary? randome May 2012 #44
How did you even know to look for that horror? nt Lucky Luciano May 2012 #50
If we ignore CLASS, then gender and race are all that matters. But CLASS is the most important. Romulox May 2012 #45
+1 nt Nye Bevan May 2012 #48
I'd haved to agree with this Stuckinthebush May 2012 #51
There's multiple layers of privilege, and their interaction is complex and non-uniform jeff47 May 2012 #138
OK. But that doesn't speak to the magnitude or pervasiveness of various privileges. Romulox May 2012 #140
No, not being in a suit or other expensive clothes would be plenty. jeff47 May 2012 #149
I think you simply are not sensitive to class markers. Nice straight teeth, for example. Romulox May 2012 #173
I think you're not sensitive to the fact that they react that way to any black man. jeff47 May 2012 #229
Who are "they"? Hypothetical people who *just happen* to be insensitive to class markers? Romulox May 2012 #230
Well, if you were actually reading my posts in this sub-thread jeff47 May 2012 #234
Thanks for making life so easy for me, LOL just1voice May 2012 #49
may not apply in China, Burma/Myanmar, many parts of Africa and the "middle" east nt msongs May 2012 #52
The "Gay Minority Female" with a disability, progressive views, and poor might FailureToCommunicate May 2012 #56
Clever. BlueIris May 2012 #60
Another horribly poor way of talking about privilege.... MellowDem May 2012 #62
+1. And it maintains division by race. Which is very important to the PTB. HiPointDem May 2012 #100
+1 TomClash May 2012 #147
didn't say much. but the formation of a multiracial, multiethnic movement among the lower HiPointDem May 2012 #150
You bet TomClash May 2012 #155
The poster isn't focusing on three kinds of privilege. In fact, posts like this focus on only one. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #165
Those are factors, but... FreeJoe May 2012 #63
This thread Doc Holliday May 2012 #67
I wonder what percentage of the homeless is cherokeeprogressive May 2012 #68
I suspect that the correlation between homelessness and poverty Nye Bevan May 2012 #72
The road to hell hotrod0808 May 2012 #71
Not that I am concerned about your interest in my future posts, but I did not write this piece. RadiationTherapy May 2012 #124
Thanks. hotrod0808 May 2012 #210
Well, the content was clear from the title. Surely you acknowledge that there are many perspectives RadiationTherapy May 2012 #217
The easy bigotry of judging others The Second Stone May 2012 #75
I think you also have to throw in LUCK into the formula. The random number. LiberalArkie May 2012 #77
Did they omit "blonde bimbo"? FarCenter May 2012 #79
“'Gay Minority Female' setting? Hardcore." Actually, black women are more likely to be employed HiPointDem May 2012 #80
That's because minority women are "two-fers" on the AA scoring FarCenter May 2012 #86
Not all jobs have "AA scoring". In fact, relatively few do. Nor do all jobs represent a rung on the HiPointDem May 2012 #101
IIRC, it was a requirement for all companies with sales to the government FarCenter May 2012 #109
Not all companies make sales to the government, and not all people work in companies. HiPointDem May 2012 #111
Thank you for trivializing my and many others lives DFab420 May 2012 #82
You didn't have a choice of being born SWM, people do have a choice of recognizing the . uponit7771 May 2012 #205
Yep. Taverner May 2012 #83
After reading this TomClash May 2012 #87
Personnel used to run these regularly back in the '70s and '80s. FarCenter May 2012 #89
Posts like these TomClash May 2012 #99
You've never been through an HR-sponsored sensitivity training group? FarCenter May 2012 #102
I meant TomClash May 2012 #103
which is why the PTB's response to the civil rights movement came in the form it did, rather HiPointDem May 2012 #105
The OP TomClash May 2012 #123
Even more so, a mention of class invites defensiveness and hostility. It. Must. Not. Be. Discussed. Romulox May 2012 #141
not that I don't essentially agree, but cali May 2012 #104
By race asians earn more than whites 4th law of robotics May 2012 #106
Not being disabled is a privilege, beauty can be a privilege and wealth is a privilege. If you stevenleser May 2012 #131
my father was a straight white male who worked his ass off in a lumber yard so the stockholders arely staircase May 2012 #137
No. Straight white female is the lowest difficulty setting. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #144
I must really suck at this game. MrSlayer May 2012 #151
Part of the reason that you're not getting any breaks is because it's antisocial to give you one. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #153
No. MrSlayer May 2012 #157
The PTB have gotten *everyone* -- white, black, etc. -- to accept the premise that the means HiPointDem May 2012 #161
Once you internalize the idea that you're on your own, the world is easier to understand. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #163
That makes sense. MrSlayer May 2012 #169
who are "they" anyways? kwassa May 2012 #189
k&r redqueen May 2012 #158
Tunnel Vision chickypea May 2012 #160
So what about the fact that Asians earn more than whites? Nye Bevan May 2012 #167
Working Harder rather than Feeling Something is Owed?? chickypea May 2012 #170
Jesus. I would think this level of cognitive dissonance would render a person non functional. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #175
For Liberals, there sure are a Lot Of Defensive and Uptight Males. chickypea May 2012 #198
That seemed like a reasonable point to me-- I'd be curious to know how you Marr May 2012 #211
So if an Asian succeeds it is because they worked hard and if a white person succeeds it is because Kurska May 2012 #197
Smaller sample grouip.... uponit7771 May 2012 #185
Or maybe they're pissed off with some good reason. lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #168
See My Post in Response to Asian Earnings. chickypea May 2012 #171
Is there any source for your racial stereotypes, or are they off-the-cuff? Romulox May 2012 #174
Yeah. Don't overexert yourself by telling us twice how lazy white men are. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2012 #176
i think it's similar to the storyline about how lazy american workers are generally. and the HiPointDem May 2012 #214
That's why it's better to play in teams. n/t rucky May 2012 #183
Even lower difficulty than that - straight white privileged male. Initech May 2012 #186
Sounds like class/color/sex envy to me. Zax2me May 2012 #187
NAWF! whistler162 May 2012 #190
Is it because the game was originally devised and set up by straight white males? begin_within May 2012 #191
This is a useful analogy for a certain age group. For someone who didn't annabanana May 2012 #194
I won't argue with the idea that being straight, white, and male all confer advantages, however... slackmaster May 2012 #195
Prejudging the "difficulty" of someone's life based on 3 variables is moronic. Kurska May 2012 #196
Indicating there's an even apple to apples playing field is just as moronic uponit7771 May 2012 #203
Then why do they have the highest suicide rate? Marr May 2012 #206
So do you think its less impossible for non SWM? TIA uponit7771 May 2012 #208
I think it's even harder for, say, a black person to make money in this economy. Marr May 2012 #209
So do I get an 0.25x score modifier after I die because of it? LetTimmySmoke May 2012 #212
Don't hate the race or the sexual orientation, hate the game of capitalism. nt Comrade_McKenzie May 2012 #225
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