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haikugal

(6,476 posts)
215. It should be as easy as taking a pill...
Mon Apr 20, 2015, 10:16 PM
Apr 2015

It doesn't have to be "gut wrenching" by any means. Any mental anguish usually comes from others saying and thinking it's killing a baby, not from choosing to end a pregnancy. I'm sure it is gut wrenching for someone who planned a pregnancy and then finds they have to abort due to health or other problems.

Also the notion of the unspoken number of abortions a woman may have. There is judgment on women for that as well. Why are women subjected to harsh judgment for everything from enjoying their sexuality to planning their family..or not having a family? It's no one's business what another woman does and I'd like to see us get past the restricting so called 'morality' of abortion.

So in my view "willy nilly" is fine, "rare" is judgment, and sends the wrong message. I don't believe for a moment that I can reason with most forced Birthers (I have only changed one mind that I know of) and I think it's a mistake to accommodate them in any way.

Safe, legal and rare... haikugal Apr 2015 #1
rare feels blamey to me elehhhhna Apr 2015 #2
I agree elehhhhna. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #14
Triangulating. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #229
Triangulating... haikugal Apr 2015 #230
Yup. That phrasing has always given me an uneasy feeling. hifiguy Apr 2015 #41
Agreed Lunabell Apr 2015 #47
To me it implies that women should have effective means of family planning csziggy Apr 2015 #53
That's my take, too. silverweb Apr 2015 #63
Yes...quibbling over rare when it means education..... Historic NY Apr 2015 #78
Agree. brer cat Apr 2015 #149
Off topic, but... silverweb Apr 2015 #151
lol brer cat Apr 2015 #155
Tell me about it! silverweb Apr 2015 #173
ding ding ding we have a winner arely staircase Apr 2015 #187
And yet despite everything abortions are still needed DrKZ Apr 2015 #195
We agree in part. silverweb Apr 2015 #198
exactly qazplm Apr 2015 #65
Excuse me? REP Apr 2015 #86
of course. but it still reduces with education, birthcontrol, family planning. which is the only seabeyond Apr 2015 #92
We disagree REP Apr 2015 #140
I think it works for all surgery. stevenleser Apr 2015 #180
No, it doesn't. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #188
You're forcing the issue. The statement stands on its own. Nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #210
Goddamn right I'm forcing the issue. And I'll keep forcing it. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #211
You are a righteous bad ass. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #212
Post removed Post removed Apr 2015 #105
The abortion rate in Sweden is higher than the U.S. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #163
yes. and she was so clear on it. so how do people ignore her words to focus on one word.... seabeyond Apr 2015 #68
because the use of that one word is a problem Scootaloo Apr 2015 #111
i disagree. i think she fliped it around and said clearly why it was flipped around. seabeyond Apr 2015 #116
As soon as I hear about people being stigmatized for getting thier knee repaired, sure Scootaloo Apr 2015 #123
i adamantly disagree with you. i get you. cause i react the same with that word. seabeyond Apr 2015 #126
Okay Scootaloo Apr 2015 #127
Perfectly said, thank you. nt F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #152
The phrase was removed from the party platform years ago. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #154
Because too many people awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #115
Wholly untrue. I support Hillary and hope she stops using that phrase. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #133
I'm sorry, Nikki... awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #147
Even in agreement with Hillary over an issue treestar Apr 2015 #120
i am not a supporter, though listening to du the last week is making me more so. i had never heard seabeyond Apr 2015 #122
There are Hilary supporters here who feel this is a problem. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #156
i think we are kneejerking. i reacted immediately also. then continued to listen. i feel seabeyond Apr 2015 #159
oh, hogwash. I've taken issue with that phrase for years. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #162
as have i and clearly stated repeatedly. not a new rant for me. pretty important to me, too. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #164
Clear to the left, exactly. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #166
here you go PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #168
That's the one. Thank you. F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #172
Agreed RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #106
Are you implying that those of us who are saying "abortion on demand" are not.. haikugal Apr 2015 #138
Not even close RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #214
It should be as easy as taking a pill... haikugal Apr 2015 #215
Gotcha RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #217
We'll you've explained yourself clearly and for that I thank you, haikugal Apr 2015 #218
You're welcome RecoveringJournalist Apr 2015 #242
Don't hear the phrase "safe, legal, and rare" to describe any medical procedures for men. kairos12 Apr 2015 #64
Yes, why say rare? As if something's wrong with having an abortion. It should be safe, legal, affordable and available on demand... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2015 #103
+1 F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #157
Men don't have an equivalent procedure treestar Apr 2015 #121
you can damn well bet if there is an alternative to prostate surgery they go for it, ... oh wait. seabeyond Apr 2015 #125
I agree as well with your post AuntPatsy Apr 2015 #101
It's a concession to the people who think women have their uterus hoovered every weekend Scootaloo Apr 2015 #109
i dont see it as a concession at all. the opposite. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #113
in no way did she mean that right wing theme about unwanted children treestar Apr 2015 #119
Feels "empowered" to me....like "rare because a woman should have control over her circumstances, MADem Apr 2015 #139
Exactly! 'Rare' to me means women have choices so they never have to consider abortion LynneSin Apr 2015 #221
Both Sweden and Denmark have abortion rates higher than the U.S. They have oodles of education Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #226
You've articulated my POV on this issue better than I ever could. MADem Apr 2015 #238
Agree 100%. Should be "safe, legal and accessible" Maven Apr 2015 #148
Rare is what happens when you have good education and access to birth control bhikkhu Apr 2015 #216
I see your side TlalocW Apr 2015 #3
I like the term because DURHAM D Apr 2015 #4
Of course that is the full context of what she is saying. still_one Apr 2015 #7
We will always need abortion, always.. haikugal Apr 2015 #9
You seem to be looking for a fight. DURHAM D Apr 2015 #12
Why do you say that? haikugal Apr 2015 #18
Yes, I agree, shouldn't concede anything to the right that helps their cause to deny women the right to choose. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2015 #107
doesn't the word rare qazplm Apr 2015 #66
No. It's unnecessary and implies there is something wrong with abortion. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #75
here's the thing though... druidity33 Apr 2015 #184
Hillary just did not mean that treestar Apr 2015 #124
It's a concession to the right to soften her position. haikugal Apr 2015 #137
If those jackasses brer cat Apr 2015 #153
Exactly. nt okaawhatever Apr 2015 #11
I hate it. It prioritizes abortion as a political issue over the health and needs of women. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #31
Thank you. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #32
VERY well said. hifiguy Apr 2015 #43
An excellent discussion of that word 'rare' and why it is used. Thx. nt Nay Apr 2015 #52
I would think any medical procedure qazplm Apr 2015 #67
Abortion is the sole medical procedure that is described as so icky that it ought to be rare. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #73
why? should it be rare? it is costly, invasive, stressful. wouldnt you rather NOT get preg seabeyond Apr 2015 #74
Should knee replacement surgery be rare? Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #84
if there are preventative alternatives? fuck ya. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #85
and nowhere was i arguing stress and pain level between abortion and giving birth. seabeyond Apr 2015 #88
I'm glad you were able to find the help you needed. haikugal Apr 2015 #141
Everything undesirable to go through should be as rare as possible treestar Apr 2015 #128
I really don't think anyone is attacking Hillary. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #145
I have disliked the use of the word since I first heard it in 2005. It has nothing to do with Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #161
That's interesting. haikugal Apr 2015 #203
If they can find a way to do microsurgery that makes knee replacement surgery unnneccessary, hell MADem Apr 2015 #142
Thanks. nt F4lconF16 Apr 2015 #158
+1 Fridays Child Apr 2015 #33
Rare implies "last resort" and thus "bad". jeff47 Apr 2015 #34
or, with family planning and other measures, they will not be needed at the same rate. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #72
It does not. treestar Apr 2015 #135
And why not have abortion happen a lot? Because it is bad. (nt) jeff47 Apr 2015 #136
Yes. northoftheborder Apr 2015 #46
Exactly. It's not a concession, it's saying open up family planning options and stevenleser Apr 2015 #181
It should be rare. With contraception and family planning there would be less. Sure, there will be still_one Apr 2015 #5
Rare because there is family planning, as in birth control being available. If there isn't Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #6
Yes, and of course there are the criminal and health related aspects why it needs to be legal. Rape, still_one Apr 2015 #8
I totally agree, especially a young girl and in cases of incest, a young victim of rape should not Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #16
There are no "especially" cases for any female who wants to have an abortion... Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #232
I understand what you say, my point was and is a young girl should not be punished further after Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #233
We don't agree often but we agree on this. Cheers to us! Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #235
Rare = accessible contraception and family planning. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #10
With education, family planning, and good birth control, abortions will be rare. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2015 #13
Sweden has all that and its abortion rate is higher than the U.S. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #165
This can't be stressed enough Novara Apr 2015 #236
Yes! Abortion is a moral and positive choice that that liberates women, saves lives, and protects PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #237
Because it speaks to the need for CONTRACEPTION. KittyWampus Apr 2015 #15
then say abortion and contraception should be safe, legal and available to all elehhhhna Apr 2015 #79
I disagree. Abortion is a last resort because it's invasive and has risks. Other options nolabear Apr 2015 #17
It's far far safer than carrying a child to term and delivery. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #20
Absolutely! nt haikugal Apr 2015 #23
There's no way Hillary means that as the option treestar Apr 2015 #129
I get that. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #132
Well yes, but we're talking about alternatives to that. nolabear Apr 2015 #167
Rare to you is never? PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #169
I can't figure out why you're arguing with me. nolabear Apr 2015 #170
We're discussing. It's a discussion board, no? PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #171
In 2005, Hillary also floated the notion of never... Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #199
Yeah, that's 100% bullshit PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #200
I hope you're right.. haikugal Apr 2015 #22
it would not be a last resort for me fizzgig Apr 2015 #69
It wasn't "last resort" for me REP Apr 2015 #87
I had an IUD placed 6 weeks after giving birth to my one and only child. haikugal Apr 2015 #143
I didn't read it that way at all. nolabear Apr 2015 #174
you and i share the same wish fizzgig Apr 2015 #175
Crazy medium, the Internet. But we're totally going to figure it out. nolabear Apr 2015 #209
I agree and say so often. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #19
Thanks for the links PN... haikugal Apr 2015 #25
Amen. I adore that reply of LeftyMom's. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #26
You can use that argument to increase access to contraception. iandhr Apr 2015 #24
Reduce to what? Rare is a relative term which means very different things to different people. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #28
I agree with you. iandhr Apr 2015 #29
Except the far right also believes that birth control pills are abortifacients. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #201
Yup, see Hobby Lobby. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #202
The science didn't enter the argument did it? It was all 'belief' haikugal Apr 2015 #204
It should have. It's not an abortifacient, that's a scientific fact. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #205
Which was amazing that the SC didn't use science to reach a decision ... We're toast! haikugal Apr 2015 #207
Agreed iandhr Apr 2015 #208
You hit all the salient points, well done! haikugal Apr 2015 #59
What if someone said that heart surgery should be safe, legal, and rare? enough Apr 2015 #50
If they said it while most states were simultaneously closing clinics, limiting access to it and PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #51
+1 treestar Apr 2015 #134
Exactly, or lobe-ectomies, or many other surgeries. It works for all of them. Nt stevenleser Apr 2015 #182
I think what she means by rare is by trying to lower unwanted pregnancies in the first place Marrah_G Apr 2015 #82
I think it means awoke_in_2003 Apr 2015 #114
It should be a last option treestar Apr 2015 #117
I always felt that the "rare" part wasn't blame-y xmas74 Apr 2015 #213
To be honest you shouldn't LynneSin Apr 2015 #220
kicked ass. sing it sister. ya... seabeyond Apr 2015 #21
No. Rare = stigma Novara Apr 2015 #27
Well said.. haikugal Apr 2015 #30
Yes you are correct. But there is more And yesthere is a Clinton inovlved DrKZ Apr 2015 #35
You are incorrect mcar Apr 2015 #83
LOL... haikugal Apr 2015 #89
that would be the ONLY word i had an issue with. i get it too. and i do not think she needs seabeyond Apr 2015 #36
I agree. She has a 100% rating with NARAL and 0% with the anti choice groups. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #38
she could. she does not have to. it totally makes sense how she uses it. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #39
*I* wish she would stop using it. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #42
obviously peace, as others wish the same. again, .... me? meh. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #44
the "rare" part also bothered me fizzgig Apr 2015 #57
No. Not at all. Effective and readily available contraception, MineralMan Apr 2015 #90
There's thinking in the anti-choice movement that women use abortion as a form of birth control justiceischeap Apr 2015 #190
k&r... spanone Apr 2015 #37
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2015 #40
That's the most impressed with Clinton I have ever been PinkPotus Apr 2015 #45
Welcome to DU!!! StevieM Apr 2015 #56
A good answer. ZombieHorde Apr 2015 #48
Hillary's strength is talking about issues concerning women and children. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #49
Rare isn't a value judgement ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #54
Making abortion rare will place value judgments on it. Novara Apr 2015 #60
A comprehensive goal ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #76
This. Her point is,abortion exists legal or not. sufrommich Apr 2015 #61
right. rare here is a good thing. means other solutions so not needed. seabeyond Apr 2015 #70
I think I'll hit my head with a brick ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #77
totaly fuggin blowing my mind. the more i listen, and the more i think about it, and thought seabeyond Apr 2015 #93
Well her husband said it in 1996 ismnotwasm Apr 2015 #100
And in 1996, the feminist organization that I was involved with protested Bill's use of the word. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #176
i would have to see how bill used it. did he do it as a concession. abortions should be rare. thats seabeyond Apr 2015 #194
I agree and the reaching to make it one treestar Apr 2015 #130
K & R SunSeeker Apr 2015 #55
What most don't get Beowulf42 Apr 2015 #58
anti abortionists, rather than prolife. and yes. that would be the point and reasoning, seabeyond Apr 2015 #62
100% correct Freddie Apr 2015 #81
They also have no problem with women dying from botched sufrommich Apr 2015 #91
She did very well. Those who want to fasten on one word need to listen to the whole thing again. Hekate Apr 2015 #71
That was a great answer from her Marrah_G Apr 2015 #80
i thought so also. but go figure. and still, we argue. lol. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #94
LOL I know Marrah_G Apr 2015 #102
i sit the same place as you do. i thought what she said was important enough for all us to hear seabeyond Apr 2015 #104
"Speechless?" One can only hope. Eleanors38 Apr 2015 #95
Hillary did a good job with her answer...but haikugal Apr 2015 #96
period at the end when she uses rare. then she explains how one decdreases it. then she brings seabeyond Apr 2015 #98
Yeah we all know what they really want and I'm done giving them anything. nt haikugal Apr 2015 #99
The "rare" talk is just another example of the left shifting to the right Novara Apr 2015 #97
Jeeez. People are willing to dismiss the whole speech just for the use of "rare". Quantess Apr 2015 #108
another example of looking for a reason to dismiss Clinton Evergreen Emerald Apr 2015 #110
Please, she's a big girl and no one said anything other than she did a good job. haikugal Apr 2015 #146
I don't get it either, she's been consistently pro choice for sufrommich Apr 2015 #112
as she says.... she has been to the places with botched abortions and watched the suffering. seabeyond Apr 2015 #118
Unable to agree with her on the one thing they agree on! treestar Apr 2015 #131
Swedenhas a higher rate of abortion than the U.S. And Sweden has early sex ed which Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #178
Keep saying it.... :-) nt haikugal Apr 2015 #206
I've noticed that those supporting the language refuse to respond to that point. TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #219
... Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #231
That wasn't clear at all, sorry. I meant the assertion that better education and access to birth TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #239
How do explain Sweden and Europe? Women will have abortions. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #240
I am agreeing with you! I was only seeking to clarify that LA, not push back. I'm sorry if I'm not TheKentuckian Apr 2015 #241
Luminous, did you have a link we can use. haikugal Apr 2015 #222
I'm on my phone and it is a pain to post links. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #223
Thanks! There's no rush.... nt haikugal Apr 2015 #224
Here you go. And the stats are consistent on both pro-choice and anti-choice websites. Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #225
This information is either. Being ignored or suppressed. haikugal Apr 2015 #228
I *have* voted for HRC and I will again. PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #179
K&R DeSwiss Apr 2015 #144
kick Liberal_in_LA Apr 2015 #150
Thanks, kpete! In that same hearing she reiterated she opposed forced abortions, as well. n/t freshwest Apr 2015 #160
YUmm...great...TPP? Worse than crickets BobSmith4152 Apr 2015 #177
Abortions are not cheap. kiva Apr 2015 #183
+1 nashville_brook Apr 2015 #185
I had a skin tag removed I had a basal cell removed should those be rare? How about colonoscopies? DrKZ Apr 2015 #196
Good answer. The right answer. nt valerief Apr 2015 #186
holy cow, ya'll -- times have changed with regard to "rare" nashville_brook Apr 2015 #189
+++ It was the camel's triangulating nose under the tent. DirkGently Apr 2015 #197
"Rare" was a mistaken concession we must retract. DirkGently Apr 2015 #191
Amen and THANK YOU! PeaceNikki Apr 2015 #192
Yes, absolutely. Why should abortions be rare? Novara Apr 2015 #193
Exactly. +1 Luminous Animal Apr 2015 #227
That was a great answer by HRC Gothmog Apr 2015 #234
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