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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Sun Mar 29, 2015, 03:57 PM Mar 2015

Oops. Somebody Didn't See That Coming - By Josh Marshall [View all]

Did the State of Indiana have any idea what it was getting itself into? Reading the history of this particular law, the relatively quiet progress of the legislation, followed by the avalanche of criticism and boycotts, the answer seems almost certainly to be no. There's now even a backdraft of commentary that the criticism and boycotts are somehow hypocritical since 19 other states and the federal government have similar laws. And the state's hapless Gov. Mike Pence is claiming that Barack Obama voted for a similar law when he was in the Illinois state legislature. Indeed, Pence now says he will push for a new law to "clarify" the law that's gotten his state in all this trouble.

But all of this seems to miss the point. There are tipping point moments in which things that were once uncontroversial or unpunished suddenly become very controversial and bring in their wake a storm of backlash. What's most interesting is how these changes are often not incremental. They build slowly and then suddenly the terms are entirely different. It's not surprising that something like this would eventually happen. But just why it happened in this case and in this way is less than clear.

The fact that other states have so called "religious freedom restoration acts" is at best misleading. The movement to push these laws goes back at least two decades. But until quite recently they were not specifically, almost exclusively, focused on gays and lesbians. Two things have changed. In the last eighteen months, social conservatives have recognized that they've lost the public battle over gay rights. Marriage equality will almost certainly be the law of the land nationwide in the near future. And the rulings that set the stage for that change will likely knock down all remaining legally sanctioned discrimination against gays and lesbians in the coming years. So social conservatives have retreated to a defensive action of accepting legally sanctioned equality but trying to create a carve out of discrimination under the guise of 'religious liberty.' The second thing is Hobby Lobby and that the signal that the Supreme Court will accept a concept of religious liberty far more expansive than anything seen in the past.

But we don't need to look at RFRAs. Don't we go through this story almost every year in which some red or reddish state pushes through some anti-gay rights law? This happens every year like spring follows winter. But this time something is different. Yes, there have been boycotts before. In Indiana itself, business groups wary of bad publicity and boycotts played a role in beating back another effort to ban same sex marriages. But here you have a flood of proactive statements by different companies saying they'll shun the state. That seems to have created something of a rush to the exits (or entrances?) with various organizations which a few years ago likely wouldn't have touched this kind of controversy signing themselves up for the effort.

Now Gov. Pence is reduced to lamely complaining that his and the legislatures efforts have been misunderstood or distorted. "I just can’t account for the hostility that’s been directed at our state,” Pence told the Indianapolis Star. “I’ve been taken aback by the mischaracterizations from outside the state of Indiana about what is in this bill.” He can't even manage the standard, conservatives in my state are being victimized by the axis of gays and liberals. He seems genuinely surprised.

In the past, states could pass these bills as sops to social conservatives with little penalty other than disapprobation from people they didn't care about anyway. But that seems to have changed.

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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/somebody-didnt-see-that-coming

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Happy to see clowns like Pence run into the tipping point on this issue KeepItReal Mar 2015 #1
This law isn't just aimed at the LGBT community is it? Can't the discrimination be for other rhett o rick Mar 2015 #2
I've been asking this question on other threads BrotherIvan Mar 2015 #5
The answer is no. NutmegYankee Mar 2015 #6
But a law so unspecific could have troubling consequences BrotherIvan Mar 2015 #11
If a business person discriminates in Connecticut, they can go to jail for 30 days. NutmegYankee Mar 2015 #13
It's not clear to me why businesses in IN can't discriminate against anyone they feel is not in AlinPA Mar 2015 #24
There are seperate laws that are considered "compelling government interest". NutmegYankee Mar 2015 #25
Nutmeg, your posts on the subject are enlightening. Beartracks Mar 2015 #37
It ends when there is a "compelling state interest" that trumps the religious objection caraher Mar 2015 #14
We will see how this plays out BrotherIvan Mar 2015 #17
Under most state statutes, the state takes action once discrimination is reported. NutmegYankee Mar 2015 #19
...discrimination against atheist and agnostics too. StarzGuy Mar 2015 #12
I wonder what these bigots consider worse vssmith Mar 2015 #18
What they need is shaming, massive loss of business, anything and everything that is legal NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #26
That's easy, a gay atheist. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #29
Nullification for everyone! Orsino Mar 2015 #20
It very much institutionalizes discrimination against women frazzled Mar 2015 #21
Women are our future. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #30
Wow, interesting. lovemydog Mar 2015 #38
I don't believe so, blackspade Mar 2015 #28
But it can be used against anyone. All one has to do is claim they thought you was gay when rhett o rick Mar 2015 #32
No arguement there. blackspade Mar 2015 #39
Stephanopolous suggested... Oilwellian Mar 2015 #35
Republicans believe their own lies nakocal Mar 2015 #3
And this is bullshit... winter is coming Mar 2015 #4
It just cannot be stressed enough how this IS REPUBLICAN THOUGHT and they march in lockstep across world wide wally Mar 2015 #7
I hear you and understand your frustration. nm rhett o rick Mar 2015 #31
YEA SoLeftIAmRight Mar 2015 #8
I really like your discussion of tipping points erronis Mar 2015 #9
Brilliant, actually. Old and In the Way Mar 2015 #34
These boycotts are justified Gothmog Mar 2015 #10
Oh yeah. Cha Mar 2015 #16
Poor mike dence playing at defense.. he "..just cannot account for the hostility.." yada yada yada.. Cha Mar 2015 #15
Not to worry Gov. Pence, Arkansas is rushing in to up-one you. Hopefully, sinkingfeeling Mar 2015 #22
What about the dreaded Sharia Law? footinmouth Mar 2015 #23
Did my tiny little part to boycott Indiana products today. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #27
Why did the damn burst now? It is March Madness. In Indiana. Home of the NCAA High Temple. Fred Sanders Mar 2015 #33
kick Liberal_in_LA Mar 2015 #36
Part of it is when Obama said "We are not a collection of Red States and Blue States".... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #40
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