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Spike89

(1,569 posts)
20. But, that is not how the stats are compiled
Fri Apr 27, 2012, 01:16 PM
Apr 2012

I'm 100% behind equal pay and gender should have no bearing on pay. However, you are correct that an E-5 salary is an E-5 salary whether you are a man or a woman, but it is a lot more complicated than that. The military is an excellent example, but for both ways of looking at the issue. An alternate method would be to average all the male salaries paid in the military and compare that amount to the average female salary--You'll probably find a "pay gap" pretty close to the national average.
There are at least 3 huge variables in the gender/pay issue and solutions aren't as easy as mandating equal pay. The first variable is very contentious, but lets stay with the military example for consistency. My arbitrary 1st variable is job/career selection. Base pay may be equal, but there are extra benefits available for soldiers in active combat areas--there are limited opportunities for women in combat areas compared to men. In the civilian workforce, an analog might be the high-paying jobs on a crab boat in the Bering Sea--no one denies that the jobs are dangerous and very physically demanding and therefore should pay well. There may be discrimination in hiring for those crab boat jobs, or it might be that women are too smart in general to risk themselves in that manner for a few dollars. More subtle, the same dynamic is seen in education (an area where pay grades are generally standardized like the military). More men (per capita) pursue administrative jobs within schools, they also tend to gravitate toward the higher grades and specialized curricular areas (where pay is higher. Women, for many reasons, dominate in the lower-paying elementary classrooms.
A second variable is probably as contentious--leave of absences. The military, live civilian employers must grant leaves for pregnancy. Men and women can both qualify, but women tend to take longer leaves (understandable) and a significant number choose to not return to the workforce when they've exhausted their leave. In the military, they don't care if you are 19-years old with 2 years experience, or 23 with the same experience--you are both probably the same rank/pay scale. By the time the 19-year old becomes 23, if he or she hasn't taken a maternity leave--they will almost certainly outrank the 23-year-old who took time off for a family. It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman--taking a year or two away from your career in your 20s will put you maybe 3 years farther behind your peers.
Value discrimination. It is really a second-level discrimination event but really tough to get a handle on. This may happen in the military, but is more common in the civilian world. "Traditional" female careers are typically paid less than traditional male careers. Comparisons are difficult and assigning values is hard, but the classic example is nursing pay vs. doctor's pay. A male nurse probably makes the same salary as a female peer and a female doctor probably earns the equivelent salary as her male peers. However, because most nurses are still female and most doctors male--there is a gender gap in pay. Maybe it is more difficult to become a doctor, maybe there is more pressure/responsibility--but the question is how much should the differential be and how much is the current differential colored by gender issues?
The simplified "women make .70 on the dollar" stats are alarming, but there is a lot more to the topic of fair pay than most people are willing to admit. The military example is very good in that it is very easy to show women have pay parity and just as easy to show that men get paid considerably more on the average than women. Once you realize that, you begin to see that the issue is almost as difficult to frame as it will be to fix.

Would An Extra $10,784 Help Your Family? [View all] Playinghardball Apr 2012 OP
If my wife hadn't raps Apr 2012 #1
So should men take a pay cut then? dkf Apr 2012 #2
In countries with pay equality nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #3
Which countries are those? Freddie Stubbs Apr 2012 #9
Europe nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #11
Equal? Or 16.4% less? Freddie Stubbs Apr 2012 #12
Have a good day nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #13
In other words "I was wrong, but I can't admit such a thing." nt Codeine Apr 2012 #15
I'm terribly sorry that I posted facts which conflicted with your worldview Freddie Stubbs Apr 2012 #17
Not conflicted with world view nadinbrzezinski Apr 2012 #22
But, that is not how the stats are compiled Spike89 Apr 2012 #20
and here in the USA, when people are in union jobs, the pay rates are published SoCalDem Apr 2012 #30
Maybe CEOs need to take a pay cut. n/t Cleita Apr 2012 #4
all women who are not paid the same amount dana_b Apr 2012 #5
You can't just go ladling out social justice all willy nilly! sudopod Apr 2012 #7
I doubt all corporations would increase their payrolls like that. dkf Apr 2012 #21
I suggest firing all of the libertarians. nt sudopod Apr 2012 #27
I think your subtlety mechanism has a low battery. sudopod Apr 2012 #6
none installed JHB Apr 2012 #8
HA! laundry_queen Apr 2012 #10
*snork* cyberswede Apr 2012 #14
Women should get the same pay as men LiberalFighter Apr 2012 #16
Are you even for real? Starry Messenger Apr 2012 #19
It's easy to see the problem. Not so easy to see a solution. dkf Apr 2012 #24
It's dead simple. Starry Messenger Apr 2012 #31
Equality... LanternWaste Apr 2012 #23
If neccessary, YES tkmorris Apr 2012 #25
Just once could you mix it up and fall on the side of fairness and decency? LeftyMom Apr 2012 #26
How do they figure the numbers here and in Europe as above? snooper2 Apr 2012 #18
Fuck yeah! nt MrScorpio Apr 2012 #28
Lawyers earn more than elementary school teachers. Nye Bevan Apr 2012 #29
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