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immoderate

(20,885 posts)

118. How about we all agree that we can call it a "police-ish" state?

Sun Dec 28, 2014, 04:17 PM

Dec 2014

Would that satisfy the semantical differences we are encountering?

There is little disagreement over the issues. Few are disputing that the police are militarized, tend toward brutality, are protected from prosecution, and are hypocritical of civil rights.

But we can post about it! So this can't be a police state. I propose the compromise term, "policeish" to denote a state where police can exceed their legal authority, assault and arrest peaceful assemblies, and they are covered and exonerated by the system.

--imm

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Now will people believe me when I say we live in a de facto police state? [View all] Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 OP

I would have believed you in the early 1980s Kalidurga Dec 2014 #1

To me the the inarguable point Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #2

I think it started with the DEA. Kalidurga Dec 2014 #38

Frank Zappa said "We are heading toward a fascist theocracy" Snarkoleptic Dec 2014 #56

Frank Zappa was a most profound philosopher nt. Kalidurga Dec 2014 #67

they set fire to the drapes in dec 2000 reddread Dec 2014 #80

And COINTELPRO. hifiguy Dec 2014 #175

That's why they allowed 911. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #66

precisely! thought it required more than mere "allowance" to get what they wanted. n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #143

Agreed billhicks76 Dec 2014 #174

That's not a police state treestar Dec 2014 #3

Members of the NYPD Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #6

Why should they suffer any consequences for exercising their first amendment rights? brooklynite Dec 2014 #14

As someone who mother was killed by a police detective Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #31

I'm sorry for your loss, but that's not the definition of a Police State brooklynite Dec 2014 #34

No, my objection was your accusation that I used the phrase Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #44

no, it is not... brooklynite Dec 2014 #52

Give It Up billhicks76 Dec 2014 #64

No. Its your problem that you don't know the difference between a real Police State onenote Dec 2014 #111

So Closeminded billhicks76 Dec 2014 #164

Believe me, if you had ever lived in a real police state, you would know that onenote Dec 2014 #169

You're Experiences Are Obviously Limited billhicks76 Dec 2014 #173

If that's what you think my point was, there's no point in continuing the discussion onenote Dec 2014 #179

Ridiculous billhicks76 Dec 2014 #177

So you're saying life for an black South African during Apartheid was better than life onenote Dec 2014 #178

Make What You Want Of It billhicks76 Dec 2014 #220

When were there not at least two Americas? onenote Dec 2014 #222

Excuse me, carla Dec 2014 #134

Define it how you will. brooklynite Dec 2014 #138

you mean it's ... wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #145

Dictionary.com... brooklynite Dec 2014 #149

I didn't know that about the Phillipines JonLP24 Dec 2014 #156

Certainly the experience of quite Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #157

How many Occupy protester were there in total? brooklynite Dec 2014 #166

In a police state, there would be no press coverage of the shooting treestar Dec 2014 #236

I am sure that the fact that the level Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #238

No - (s)he means it's COLGATE4 Dec 2014 #181

Then you are not objective treestar Dec 2014 #96

So, no one who is a victim can be objective? Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #124

No, they are not treestar Dec 2014 #130

Now you are equating being a victim with being a bigot Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #155

Ordinary People Are Fired By Racists billhicks76 Dec 2014 #63

The military dont get fo disparage the commander in chief, on or off duty. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #87

sounds like you WANT a police state hfojvt Dec 2014 #103

Cops arent everyone, theyre basically a civilian military. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #104

but they ARE part of society hfojvt Dec 2014 #109

Your logic is fail. Requiring cops to show respect to the people tjat employ them is far from asking ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #120

Does the same apply to all government employees? Teachers for example? hack89 Dec 2014 #191

Because theyre not a paramilitary force famed for human rights abuses. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #223

Words with no legal meaning hack89 Dec 2014 #225

The military doesnt get it. Why should cops? ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #227

Because the military are a unique class of people in the eyes of the law hack89 Dec 2014 #229

Im not. They already do! ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #230

You just want to tighten that control by destroying a powerful union hack89 Dec 2014 #232

An evil one that supports human rights abuse. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #233

All union busters can justify their actions. Even left wing union busters. Nt hack89 Dec 2014 #234

All cop lovers can justify their actions. Even left win Cop lovers. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #235

You are the one that will give the 1% absolute control of the police by destroying the union hack89 Dec 2014 #237

Certainly not the public. ncjustice80 Jan 2015 #240

You just said the police are the tool of the 1% hack89 Jan 2015 #241

You make no sense. We re done here. ncjustice80 Jan 2015 #242

You were done a long time ago. Nt hack89 Jan 2015 #243

Lol wow sweet comeback bro. Feel better? ncjustice80 Jan 2015 #244

So you are not done after all? Nt hack89 Jan 2015 #245

So you are not done after all? ncjustice80 Jan 2015 #246

Granted, getting a straight answer out of you will take a while hack89 Jan 2015 #247

There is no conversation. ncjustice80 Jan 2015 #248

I thought we were talking about you busting a large public employee union hack89 Jan 2015 #249

No we were talking about your support for racist thugs. ncjustice80 Jan 2015 #250

Get back to us when the military is unionized and gets collective bargaining rights. hack89 Dec 2014 #137

I dont think cops should be allowed to unionize either. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #189

Same for all governement employees, right? hack89 Dec 2014 #190

No. Just cops. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #224

Break one union you weaken all of them hack89 Dec 2014 #226

Lol Im pro union and anti- racist human rights abuse. ncjustice80 Dec 2014 #228

+1 and that it IS a police state because they can? treestar Dec 2014 #95

In carrying out their first amendment rights they disrespected their Mayor. sheshe2 Dec 2014 #161

In a police state melman Dec 2014 #20

Thats the First Amendment treestar Dec 2014 #94

You sound like you've been comatose for the past 3 weeks 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #10

Precisely! Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #28

Not really, that one never can say anything bad about authority. Rex Dec 2014 #37

You got that right. BeanMusical Dec 2014 #57

Yup BrotherIvan Dec 2014 #74

In a real police state, you couldn't. treestar Dec 2014 #99

doesn't that... wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #146

+ ellenrr Dec 2014 #85

You don't know the term police state or what it means treestar Dec 2014 #97

ok... wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #147

+ a brazilian. hifiguy Dec 2014 #176

a police state is not one where 'one ruler has all the power'. it could be, but it doesn't have to NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #16

yeah this thread is black helicopters and FEMA camps uhnope Dec 2014 #50

I find that quite insulting Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #158

I find that a strawman since you know I didn't say that uhnope Dec 2014 #162

No I guess it is more like the Pretorian Guards. zeemike Dec 2014 #54

They are still subject to the law here treestar Dec 2014 #100

And they make a joke of the Miranda rights. zeemike Dec 2014 #105

It is not like that here treestar Dec 2014 #110

+ another 100 COLGATE4 Dec 2014 #184

Well when will we know it is one? zeemike Dec 2014 #187

When there is no system of laws at all treestar Dec 2014 #209

Your understanding of the legal process with COLGATE4 Dec 2014 #183

The well off and educated lawyer up zeemike Dec 2014 #186

Yep. After 25 years as an attorney COLGATE4 Dec 2014 #188

Well it clearly is if you think that a poor person can call his lawyer zeemike Dec 2014 #192

Try Googling "Public Defender". You will be amazed. COLGATE4 Dec 2014 #193

There are Innocent people in prison right now that had a public defender. zeemike Dec 2014 #194

Keep talking. You may evemtually convince yourself. COLGATE4 Dec 2014 #197

poor people have TVs and have been through the public school system treestar Dec 2014 #211

A lawyer will be provided for you if you cannot afford one treestar Dec 2014 #210

Seems strange that you rush to call the US a police state uhnope Dec 2014 #202

What is up with that is the "with us or against us" meme. zeemike Dec 2014 #208

An example of a police state exists treestar Dec 2014 #212

"yet gradually exerted more and more repressive controls over its people" zeemike Dec 2014 #214

What's repressive? treestar Dec 2014 #216

You have the illusion of freedom. zeemike Dec 2014 #219

+100 !!! Keep speaking out! (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2014 #133

Shhh ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #135

no! wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #144

Police murdering citizens + CIA torturing at-will = Police State 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #4

You have no clue what a real police state is. nt hack89 Dec 2014 #5

What's your point? That everything is cool? It could be worse but it's bad enough. nm rhett o rick Dec 2014 #7

My point is America is not a police state. hack89 Dec 2014 #9

The police are killing citizens, esp black citizens, with impunity. With out control it will get rhett o rick Dec 2014 #11

Are they killing more now than they were 20, 30, 40 years ago? hack89 Dec 2014 #15

I am still searching for a point. I hope you are not rationalizing this. nm rhett o rick Dec 2014 #58

They are rationalizing it. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #69

The police are too aggressive and militarized. hack89 Dec 2014 #77

whats an endless, extrajudicial killing spree with no repercussion? reddread Dec 2014 #82

Something to be stopped? hack89 Dec 2014 #86

cant kill whats already dead reddread Dec 2014 #88

Ok. Nt hack89 Dec 2014 #89

So we can't be a police state Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #159

Police state can mean anything you want it to be I guess. hack89 Dec 2014 #168

I never claimed to be anyone special Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #195

The arm flapping angst over people disagreeing with you hack89 Dec 2014 #196

it's not even a molehill hfojvt Dec 2014 #107

So as long as the police murder Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #160

in police state they would not even be considered for indictment treestar Dec 2014 #165

Will you ever say "enough is enough"? 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #12

When I was born the police were violently enforcing Jim Crow laws in the south hack89 Dec 2014 #21

Black People DO Say It's Worse billhicks76 Dec 2014 #71

I specifically said the police are too aggressive and shoot too many people hack89 Dec 2014 #79

The ACLU would beg to differ. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #73

Link please? Nt hack89 Dec 2014 #78

Perhaps we differ in our definition of a "police state" 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #75

Then you have a point.. MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #19

ok nt hack89 Dec 2014 #25

A state where the police act with impunity Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #8

Research East Germany - it was once called the perfect police state hack89 Dec 2014 #13

Yes, the STASI Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #22

Remember what the STASI did with that information? hack89 Dec 2014 #26

When that happens Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #32

+1 Enthusiast Dec 2014 #70

We are not even heading in that direction. Nt hack89 Dec 2014 #108

The police kill without fear of retribution Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #122

Ok. Nt hack89 Dec 2014 #123

They're not disappeared. They are shot dead onecaliberal Dec 2014 #45

Police State: WillyT Dec 2014 #18

Thanks for supporting my view hack89 Dec 2014 #23

If You Say So... WillyT Dec 2014 #29

Sure - let's reign in the NSA and demilitarize the police hack89 Dec 2014 #81

You forgot the sarcasm thingie. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #72

My computer appears to be missing the hyperbol key that many of you seem to have hack89 Dec 2014 #83

"Degree of government repression varies widely among societies…" MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #41

A genuine police state only needs politicians cprise Dec 2014 #142

+ 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! WillyT Dec 2014 #154

2 Million People In Jail billhicks76 Dec 2014 #68

That word.."police state".. X_Digger Dec 2014 #17

police state Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #24

I bet you brown people and white people view this issue differently randys1 Dec 2014 #30

Personally I am white Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #35

and they lie constantly randys1 Dec 2014 #36

LOL! Rex Dec 2014 #42

I guess you really weren't addressing this to me... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #27

The police work to protect the 1% Ramses Dec 2014 #33

WELL, when you put it that way, sure Lol WE are so fucked randys1 Dec 2014 #39

The 1% own the electronic voting machines Ramses Dec 2014 #53

And dare to question it even here Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #40

they will ignore,equivocate,deny and distract Ramses Dec 2014 #47

I see that here often. laundry_queen Dec 2014 #114

" The police work to protect the 1%" dixiegrrrrl Dec 2014 #90

Damn skippy? MrScorpio Dec 2014 #43

Between ctsnowman Dec 2014 #46

Absolutely Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #48

People's homes are being raided every night ctsnowman Dec 2014 #49

Police routinely steal people's money Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #51

There is a term for when the armed forces overthrow an elected government..... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2014 #55

You forgot to name the NSA. BeanMusical Dec 2014 #59

Many will continue to deny this fact until the day they day. Maedhros Dec 2014 #60

I believe you! n/t sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #61

I have believed that for years. n/t marym625 Dec 2014 #62

It's been like this at least since the Iran—Contra days. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #65

a land of lawlessness and misdirected suckers. reddread Dec 2014 #84

Absolutely. nt DLevine Dec 2014 #76

it's a 'uniquely american' form of police state KG Dec 2014 #91

We are not a country of laws. Baitball Blogger Dec 2014 #92

In a police state, you would not be allowed to post this. randome Dec 2014 #93

This the the 21st Century police state Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #98

By that definition, we've always been a police state onenote Dec 2014 #113

No, we used to actually, on occasion Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #121

We still do. Not as much as we should. But politicians still get punished. Police get punished. onenote Dec 2014 #131

Again, punishment is the exception Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #153

huh? MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #101

I see over-population as the cause of many of the world's ills. randome Dec 2014 #115

What increased competition would a "too big" population have, then? MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #116

The existence of this thread and DU disproves your claim. nt Dreamer Tatum Dec 2014 #102

Lol! You have a comic book view of police states. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #106

Exponential logical fallacy , Dreamer... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #117

Nope Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #129

Well you pissed off all the authoritarians with your comment Rex Dec 2014 #112

It is like arguing as to whether a black horse Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #128

How about we all agree that we can call it a "police-ish" state? immoderate Dec 2014 #118

As I explain in another post Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #127

I'd be willing to accept that. stevenleser Dec 2014 #171

Depends on who you are.. SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #119

Exactly my point Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #125

Yup.. I think it's too late now. People are accepting their new status SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #126

No. Of course not. That's nonsense. (nt) reACTIONary Dec 2014 #132

The single most characteristic feature of a police state -- DEATH WITHOUT TRIAL -- is present. Octafish Dec 2014 #136

Bingo !!! WillyT Dec 2014 #139

And the reasoning -- Efficiency and morale of the police trumping civil liberties cprise Dec 2014 #140

If that's the characteristic feature of a police state, then the US has always been a police state onenote Dec 2014 #163

k & r! n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2014 #141

There are degrees of a police state workinclasszero Dec 2014 #148

Exactly my point Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #152

If you don't think it's a police state nichomachus Dec 2014 #150

I thought it was gonna happen the night of Oct 20, 1973. Jackpine Radical Dec 2014 #151

Not even close... brooklynite Dec 2014 #201

Here's the scenario I thought might unfold: Jackpine Radical Dec 2014 #206

Despite the numerous Feral Child Dec 2014 #167

I disagree onenote Dec 2014 #170

You're entitled. Feral Child Dec 2014 #172

Do I think things will get better? Yes. onenote Dec 2014 #180

I hope your assessment is correct. Feral Child Dec 2014 #182

And thank you as well. 2014 sucked, but I have to hope 2015 will start to turn things around onenote Dec 2014 #185

Are you referring the Voting Rights Act Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #199

Yes. onenote Dec 2014 #205

Again, I hope you are right Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #207

We imprison more people, per capita, than North Korea Nevernose Dec 2014 #198

There's no such thing as a "de facto" police state. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #200

By the time we meet your criteria Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #203

There haven't been many times in US history when the CIA was under control. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #204

Why the need to call the US a police state? treestar Dec 2014 #213

Yeah, torture is legal, Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #215

But that's still not a police state. treestar Dec 2014 #217

I have listed all the ways Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #218

I haven't doubted since the days of my youth. Getting thrown in jail Zorra Dec 2014 #221

As you loudly advocate to bust a large prominent union. Got it. Nt hack89 Dec 2014 #231

Oh, since it is a union, I must Kelvin Mace Dec 2014 #239

Believe you? What are you, a prophet? rjsquirrel Jan 2015 #251