General Discussion

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)

12. He's a wordsmith master

Fri Dec 12, 2014, 06:54 AM

Dec 2014

I think he purposely worded it for ambiguous messages and signals for a reason so one could read into what they wanted.

He needed to reassure the masses that torture was wrong and we did it.

He needed to send a message to the intelligence agencies that you are safe. Hence the patriot message.

I can see how both sides of the argument ..yes he did ... no he didn't.

Eschew obfuscation", also stated as "eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation", is a humorous fumblerule used by English teachers and professors when lecturing about proper writing techniques.

Literally, the phrase means "avoid being unclear" or "avoid being unclear, support being clear", but the use of relatively uncommon words causes confusion, making the statement an example of irony, and more precisely a heterological phrase.

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Obama DID call torturers patriots. Deal with it. NT [View all] grahamhgreen Dec 2014 OP

Really Grahm I didn't read it that way Kalidurga Dec 2014 #1

Point out where he made the distinction between those who tortured and those who didn't. You can't Luminous Animal Dec 2014 #3

I think it's implied in the paragraph breaks Kalidurga Dec 2014 #5

Read it as you will; what matters most Jackpine Radical Dec 2014 #27

He actually had his fingers crossed while saying it Capt. Obvious Dec 2014 #37

This was vocalized. Paragraphs and sentence breaks were added after the fact. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #80

What is it important for us "not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect" about? deurbano Dec 2014 #9

Here ya go. brush Dec 2014 #28

I love this meme, that many in the CIA objected, protested, and left their jobs. Demit Dec 2014 #63

You are trying to rewrite a speech. Unfortunately you can not fix what he said. robinlynne Dec 2014 #98

it says "a lot of those folks" not all Motown_Johnny Dec 2014 #32

NOT ALL TORTURERS ARE SODOMIZERS OF YOUNG BOYS Capt. Obvious Dec 2014 #38

"doing that job" RedCappedBandit Dec 2014 #70

I didn't notice that last sentence before: 'one of the first things I did was to sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #114

You are exactly correct. JEB Dec 2014 #132

So he's simply going out of his way to praise normal job-doers? And also feels the need to mix such WinkyDink Dec 2014 #96

It does, and worse. He said don't be sanctimonious about it. robinlynne Dec 2014 #97

If they're not patriots, then, what are they? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #119

^ nationalize the fed Dec 2014 #2

No, he did not. Major Hogwash Dec 2014 #4

Then what is the excuse not prosecuting someone who tortured innocent people? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #110

You are determined to misread the quote. Ask yourself why, and deal with it. nt Hekate Dec 2014 #6

LOL, You are determined to misread the quote. Ask yourself why, and deal with it. nt Logical Dec 2014 #81

that is certainly the way I read it DrDan Dec 2014 #7

Rape billhicks76 Dec 2014 #11

It also didn't include anyone sent out of the country for "rendition".. SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #91

No, he did not. lovemydog Dec 2014 #8

No he didnt but even if he did call them patriots so what? cstanleytech Dec 2014 #10

One difference: In 1776 slavery was legal. WinkyDink Dec 2014 #93

Legal doesnt = right thing to do. nt cstanleytech Dec 2014 #105

He's a wordsmith master Ichingcarpenter Dec 2014 #12

Exactly.... sendero Dec 2014 #16

My take is... he did... but like I said Ichingcarpenter Dec 2014 #22

As Oprah said: 'you're a patriot' Ichingcarpenter Dec 2014 #25

lol Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #101

Excellent post. Rec LittleBlue Dec 2014 #72

Reminds me of the Ministry of Truth... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #107

Clearly the dog whistle he was using, let torture proponents know that grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #121

Of course he did. woo me with science Dec 2014 #13

So what!! All American "patriots" were terrorists by the definition we have now. Ask GB. kelliekat44 Dec 2014 #14

"I understand why it happened." pretty much tells you the whole story. Bonobo Dec 2014 #15

Best parsing of the 3 paragraphs I've yet read. 'Denial' about captures the response KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #17

+1 Scuba Dec 2014 #18

You mean the "mistakes" they made? robinlynne Dec 2014 #99

I don't give a damn if he did or didn't. It's trivial and irrelevant. 99Forever Dec 2014 #19

So we really are expected to believe he is for torture? treestar Dec 2014 #20

Then why not prosecute? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #23

Because in HIS world, his actions have consequences ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #77

In the real world, failure to prosecute has been a boon for terrorism worldwide. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #79

No it hasn't ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #87

So in your view, there is no reason for laws? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #113

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #124

It's not just a deterrence, it provides rehabilitation for the corrupt mind of the torturers, grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #127

So you think he's in favor of torture, treestar Dec 2014 #90

All torturer should be prosecuted, can we agree? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #122

Amazingly enough, it was with exactly your argument that people became nazis. If you do not robinlynne Dec 2014 #100

Du rec Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #21

He didn't, but the haters gonna hate regardless. eom MohRokTah Dec 2014 #24

yup, it doesn't fit their talking point still_one Dec 2014 #26

Did too! Did too! Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #29

Nice selfie. BeanMusical Dec 2014 #130

? Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #131

Think about what are suggesting. That a sitting president would glorify torturers....lmao! BenzoDia Dec 2014 #30

We agree that President Bush did, yes? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #82

Have a quote where he does? BenzoDia Dec 2014 #104

Do we both agree that Bush was in charge of a regime that anctioned torture? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #112

You have an odd way of thinking. Marr Dec 2014 #118

This is one of the most astonishing denials of black-letter reality I've ever seen. WilliamPitt Dec 2014 #31

Same cognitive dissonance whatchamacallit Dec 2014 #33

And oddly, cognitive dissonance is often used by interrogators to bring their target into the fold. grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #109

"A lot of those folks" means "a lot of those torturers" MisterP Dec 2014 #36

Blows my mind. nt Horse with no Name Dec 2014 #75

He wasn't talking about the torturers in your selected quote. LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #76

Please. The "entirety" suggests nothing you claim. Why would he feel the need to demand we "not be WinkyDink Dec 2014 #94

He was talking about torturers the entire time. That is the subject. the only subject. torture repor robinlynne Dec 2014 #102

Outstanding point! grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #128

Still finding it necessary ... NanceGreggs Dec 2014 #88

Of course that is the meme you'd like to press. Sheepshank Dec 2014 #34

So he didn't say the torturers are patriots? LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #39

really Sheepshank Dec 2014 #41

When is Obama going to prosecute those responsible? LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #42

probably after all the screeching of Sheepshank Dec 2014 #43

Awww, poor baby LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #44

that fact that you make up shit and then ask me to read someones mind is pretty idiotic Sheepshank Dec 2014 #45

Poor thing LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #47

provide some proof that no torturer under Obama has ever been prosecuted Sheepshank Dec 2014 #50

You want me to prove a negative?? LMAO LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #52

why are you repeating your idiotic unansweable question...I don't read minds Sheepshank Dec 2014 #56

Easy question LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #61

You changed your question Sheepshank Dec 2014 #64

You poor thing LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #66

Wow, this one is an easy one to answer... Jamastiene Dec 2014 #129

How bout after the screams of the tortured have stopped? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #123

no, he didn't say torturers are patriots Sheepshank Dec 2014 #46

Ah, good. Glad he didn't say torturers were patriots LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #49

so you finally admit he didn't say it Sheepshank Dec 2014 #51

I didn't make a statement, I asked a question LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #54

"Glad he didn't say torturers were patriots" Sheepshank Dec 2014 #57

Easy question LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #60

moving the goalposts...something RW'ers do all the time Sheepshank Dec 2014 #65

Really so hard to answer? LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #67

I guess it really IS too hard for you to answer LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #68

That's not happening because of the great danger of sanctimony JVS Dec 2014 #59

The pom-pom squad LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #62

Why urge people to not be sanctimonious? Deny and Shred Dec 2014 #35

Obama also said torture is against American's values Beringia Dec 2014 #86

Perhaps America has new values Deny and Shred Dec 2014 #92

How odd. OilemFirchen Dec 2014 #40

Your one-line post is obvious trolling. Deal with that. nt True Blue Door Dec 2014 #48

Exactly. nt Andy823 Dec 2014 #58

One line trolling is fun. obnoxiousdrunk Dec 2014 #78

+1,000,000,000,000 eom MohRokTah Dec 2014 #106

He was very careful not to do that JVS Dec 2014 #53

can we get some links? JaneyVee Dec 2014 #55

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Dec 2014 #69

The entire excerpt is a justification for torture RedCappedBandit Dec 2014 #71

Well, he certainly didn't call them thugs, monsters, sociopathic criminals, or paid sadists. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2014 #73

Don't bother engaging with the flat earth society. pa28 Dec 2014 #74

He admitted that we (America) broke the law many times. Rex Dec 2014 #83

Exactly-- acknowledging that 'we tortured some folks', and having no legal proceedings Marr Dec 2014 #117

That is the whole point people are trying to make, but others keep pretending Rex Dec 2014 #125

Why would he even do that? Obama is smarter than about anyone on this stupid forum BootinUp Dec 2014 #84

Speak for yourself! WinkyDink Dec 2014 #95

Perhaps he's not smarter than 840high Dec 2014 #103

Why would anyone not prosecute someone who tortured an innocent person? grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #111

Well, he did say it. Marr Dec 2014 #116

Post removed Post removed Dec 2014 #85

bump..nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #89

Dealing with it, step #1... MrMickeysMom Dec 2014 #108

People who say the group he labeled 'patriots' was vague are arguing against Obama. Marr Dec 2014 #115

The reason for not prosecuting the torturers is grahamhgreen Dec 2014 #120

And while we debate this Jamie Dimon and others are plotting the annihilation of all but the one NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #126