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In reply to the discussion: Abraham Lincoln WTF? [View all]
 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
17. I've never met an even vaguely educated person who was unaware of
Sun Apr 15, 2012, 09:09 PM
Apr 2012

the complexities of his personal views.

Abraham Lincoln WTF? [View all] Tx4obama Apr 2012 OP
From The Debates With Douglas, Ma'am The Magistrate Apr 2012 #1
It's hardly a handy fact readily broadcast. rug Apr 2012 #4
Those Debates, Sir, Are A Major Part Of Lincoln's Political Life The Magistrate Apr 2012 #7
The debates are well-known; the racist views less-known. rug Apr 2012 #14
He Was Still In Advance Of Judge Douglas On The Question, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #21
He was also more advanced than Jefferson Davis but that wasn't the topic. rug Apr 2012 #26
Since They Are Not Hidden, Sir, Then On Your Showing There Is Nothing To Discuss The Magistrate Apr 2012 #31
I do not call Lincoln's racism "Nothing To Discuss". rug Apr 2012 #34
You Can Call It A Double-Burger With Cheese, Sir, For All The Difference It Would Make To Me The Magistrate Apr 2012 #58
You called it nothing, not a double cheeseburger. rug Apr 2012 #63
And Both 'Nothing' And 'Double Cheeseburger', Sir, Plug The Same Hole In Sentence Structure The Magistrate Apr 2012 #67
No it hasn't. rug Apr 2012 #74
Never Found Cheese-Burgers To My Taste, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #75
You crossed mine midway through your second post. rug Apr 2012 #82
You seem to have difficulty following a logical argument (including, apparently, your own)... regnaD kciN Apr 2012 #85
They thought women voting was as likely as pigs flying, it was "accepted" that women gave up all MADem Apr 2012 #69
Exactly. I've known this since my American History classes in high school, if not before... regnaD kciN Apr 2012 #84
Pick up a book now and then sharp_stick Apr 2012 #9
At what grade were you or your children first taught Lincoln's racist views? rug Apr 2012 #20
By the standards of that time, Lincoln was not much of a racist treestar Apr 2012 #44
By the standards of this time, his views were racist. rug Apr 2012 #52
Because his views pale in significance to his actions and achievements. Codeine Apr 2012 #70
You're engaging in the sin of 'presentism,' i.e., judging the past by the coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #98
It was so ingrained, it was not noticed, and something like the Lincoln quotes treestar Apr 2012 #125
Everything is known treestar Apr 2012 #123
Lincoln's beliefs regarding "negroes" is well-known among rusty fender Apr 2012 #113
I've never met an even vaguely educated person who was unaware of Codeine Apr 2012 #17
How many of the vaguely educated persons you met consider "the complexities of his personal views" rug Apr 2012 #22
All of them. Codeine Apr 2012 #30
The point is that his racist views are not widely known. Why? rug Apr 2012 #36
But. . . they ARE widely known! Codeine Apr 2012 #38
We're arguing anecdotes here. Data is required. rug Apr 2012 #55
I learned this in high school. Codeine Apr 2012 #65
perhaps his virtues are far more important than his vices hfojvt Apr 2012 #78
Well you don't seem to need much data to form an assumption Rex Apr 2012 #117
Yes. The point is that they ARE widely known... regnaD kciN Apr 2012 #89
Christ! I hope you never find out pscot Apr 2012 #39
His views on race have more impact, even today, than his mother's dog. rug Apr 2012 #56
His views on race are really insignificant. Codeine Apr 2012 #73
Lincoln's views on race, which are racist, are insignificant? Really insignificant? rug Apr 2012 #79
Damn right, they're insignificant! regnaD kciN Apr 2012 #91
To a great extent they are insignificant. whopis01 Apr 2012 #126
I agree we don't need more historical revisionism, ZombieHorde Apr 2012 #120
This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Apr 2012 #71
Moreover, it was absolutely necessary to make such remarks to be politically violable in that race. pnorman Apr 2012 #47
True Enough, Sir The Magistrate Apr 2012 #59
Should come as a shock to many Republicans though... WhoIsNumberNone Apr 2012 #88
I don't know why this would be surprising. Ruby the Liberal Apr 2012 #2
he *was* a Republican NoMoreWarNow Apr 2012 #3
He was also a vampire hunter. randome Apr 2012 #6
And he was known to party-on with Bill & Ted. Iggo Apr 2012 #16
The man did get around, didn't he? eShirl Apr 2012 #110
Here's the letters alfredo Apr 2012 #29
Which is why you should pay attention to what they DO, no matter what they say. aquart Apr 2012 #5
Same (O.P.) can be said of MADISON, LBJ (see thread on MADISON/his slaves by xchrom) UTUSN Apr 2012 #57
Did you not go to school? sharp_stick Apr 2012 #8
Why are you making this personal? The subject line and article is from another website Tx4obama Apr 2012 #10
I went to school in the '70s Art_from_Ark Apr 2012 #86
yep datasuspect Apr 2012 #121
19th century man held 19th century racial attitudes shocker Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #11
Lincoln became Lincoln. undeterred Apr 2012 #12
Lincoln was preoccupied with preserving The Union. no_hypocrisy Apr 2012 #13
He was pandering to bigoted people in the Lower Midwest. Odin2005 Apr 2012 #15
"Were"? HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #27
DOH, my bad! Odin2005 Apr 2012 #33
Hah! -n/t coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #99
actually at that time he only needed those from Southern Illinois as he was running for that Senate dsc Apr 2012 #28
Then, yeah, but he had the same problem in 1860 running for president. Odin2005 Apr 2012 #37
I remember learning about this rhetoric when I was in High School and it really floored me. aikoaiko Apr 2012 #18
Yet he prosecuted a war that was, ultimately, about freeing black people MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #19
Manny, the war became ultimately about freeing slaves (whether black or coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #100
Much like Robert Byrd. People are complex. Keep reading. nt Snake Alchemist Apr 2012 #23
At one point Lincoln wanted to return Blacks to Africa deutsey Apr 2012 #24
And the Titanic actually was a ship Lex Apr 2012 #25
I want to explain why I rec'd this. It made for interesting replies people might want to read. Gregorian Apr 2012 #32
It's hard to belive that any one with a basic knowledge of Lincoln and his history enough Apr 2012 #35
I know, right? LOL Lex Apr 2012 #41
See comment #10 n/t Tx4obama Apr 2012 #72
This isn't really a surprise to me. A couple years ago I read a quote by Lincoln stating that he Proles Apr 2012 #40
Oh for gawd sake it was 1860 alphafemale Apr 2012 #42
Required reading RFKHumphreyObama Apr 2012 #43
The story here is that a large number of people cr8tvlde Apr 2012 #45
If this was Lincoln's personal viewpoint, then why did the South fear him being elected? Major Hogwash Apr 2012 #46
Because, Major, the South Was Loaded With, And Led By, Raving Nutters.... The Magistrate Apr 2012 #60
American history is really ugly; it's why most people prefer American "heritage" Tom Ripley Apr 2012 #48
History in general is really ugly; ours is not uniquely negative. nt Codeine Apr 2012 #66
Agreed(n/t) Tom Ripley Apr 2012 #83
Marge Simpson : "I never realized history was so filthy!" bullwinkle428 Apr 2012 #87
Not news to me. I learned about it in the 50s frogmarch Apr 2012 #49
This does not surprise me. He fought the war to stop the south from leaving the union. And jwirr Apr 2012 #50
RE: Dead people. jp11 Apr 2012 #51
Marx on Lincoln Starry Messenger Apr 2012 #53
I'm guessing that LGBT rights wouldn't draw much support in the 1850s either. baldguy Apr 2012 #54
...or the 1950s, for that matter. regnaD kciN Apr 2012 #92
Sure--he was dragged, kicking and screaming, to the place where he saw the point of emancipation. MADem Apr 2012 #61
Lincoln WAS NOT dragged, kicking and screaming, to emancipation. That is total and utter rubbish. He coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #103
Oh please. Put the huff-n-puff away. I am talking about his evolution over DECADES. MADem Apr 2012 #104
When someone uses the phrase 'kicking and screaming,' the implication is coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #106
Read past the subject line. I wasn't implying what you are suggesting at all. MADem Apr 2012 #108
And Jefferson had slaves and he SLEPT with them...I mean he really had SEX with them...and George Rowdyboy Apr 2012 #62
Lincoln also didn't free the slaves Major Nikon Apr 2012 #76
Very true.... I was unaware there was any controversy about that but thanks for the clarification.. Rowdyboy Apr 2012 #90
Oh, please. That's engaging in pedantry and Jesuitical equivocation of the worst sort. The coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #105
As opposed to historical revisionism? Major Nikon Apr 2012 #107
Yipes. I guess it comes down to what the phrase 'freeing the slaves' actually means, hence coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #114
Sounds like we need some Drunk History in this thread... SidDithers Apr 2012 #64
Michael Cera's is really fantastic... Rowdyboy Apr 2012 #96
this is well known JI7 Apr 2012 #68
Are we throwing Abe under the bus now too? RetroLounge Apr 2012 #77
And the self-righteous 'presentism' is pretty stifling too, now coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #119
Seems a lot of folk are feeling superior for having read A People's History of the United States sadbear Apr 2012 #80
Therefore, he was actually the bad guy, and the South should have won. 2ndAmForComputers Apr 2012 #81
Oh! I finally understand your post. MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #93
Has anyone on this thread even read the full post on the link in the OP? Tx4obama Apr 2012 #94
What was the point of your post? nt MannyGoldstein Apr 2012 #95
It's the WTF part that is throwing so many off Major Nikon Apr 2012 #97
Yep, well it's not my fault that folks aren't clicking on the OP link to see that's the title :) n/t Tx4obama Apr 2012 #101
Less interesting to me than why we don't talk about which of today's ruling-class families owe HiPointDem Apr 2012 #102
It took me years to accept the truth of Lincoln's racism. BlueIris Apr 2012 #109
Read "A People's History of the United States" quispquake Apr 2012 #111
And Jefferson owned / raped slaves & Lincoln got STDs from hookers. ehrnst Apr 2012 #112
I think a better statement on poster would be - lynne Apr 2012 #115
Emphatic K&R for the discussion! I had my eyes opened a couple years back coalition_unwilling Apr 2012 #116
I remember being taught this in highschool, in addition, his views did develop over the course of... Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #118
It's how normal men are remembered as great men. Ian_rd Apr 2012 #122
Slavery does not equal racism malthaussen Apr 2012 #124
Abraham Lincoln in the end lincoln65 Feb 2014 #127
welcome to DU gopiscrap Feb 2014 #128
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