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The Magistrate

(95,728 posts)
44. You Can Say Whatever You Want, Sir
Fri Oct 3, 2014, 03:46 PM
Oct 2014

Unfortunately, you do not seem to be able to support what you say.

First, it would be nice to have some support for the assertion you are basing your engagement on, namely this parenthetical &quot nobody speaks on that issue more powerfully, by the way, than former Vt. Governor and fervent States Rights proponent Howard Dean)." This is simply an assertion by a person whose credibility and judgement are open to serious question. I cannot recall anyone else characterizing Gov. Dean as 'a fervent State's Rights proponent', nor can I recall any ringing denunciations from him on the reach of the Commerce Clause. It is true enough that he ran afoul of it a time or two while governor, with a law to restrict dissemination of 'harmful material' to minors that could have affected residents of other states than Vermont, and if recollection serves in some of the manouvering around the health care system he established in Vermont. I know he has taken positions opposing any great restriction of the Commerce Clause in debates with free-marketeer types. Standard boiler-plate about 'states being free to implement their own solutions' on various questions ranging from health insurance to legalization of marijuana, is far short of what is needed to carry the point that he is 'a fervent State's Rights proponent'. The man has been in the public eye for many years, and what comes first to mind when his name is mentioned is not state's rights.

Second, your over-facile 'isn't anti-war under the wrong president' is nonsense based on a mis-reading ( were I to be in a kind mood ) or a deliberate distortion ( were I to be in my more usual mood ) of the comment you are replying to with it. This is what I wrote: "I have noticed he ( Gov. Dean ) spends very little time denouncing President Obama as a war-monger and fabricator of enemies...." It is quite possible to oppose military engagement in Iraq and Syria without claiming President Obama is a war-monger who is telling lies about the situation to have an excuse to go to war. It would be possible for even Mr. Greenwald to do this, were he a person of different character and temper. But he seems to have an inability to express or hold any view without descending to vitriol and hyperbole, and in short order coming to treat his exaggerations for effect as statements of fact. I did not bother to comment much on his rantings when Bush was in office, but I considered him an embarrassment, and someone who was of no help at all in any project to move the mood of the public in regard to the policies in Iraq. To say he preached to the choir only would be to greatly over-state the reach of his comments, and I suspect that, among people who did not already agree with his views who were exposed to his fulminations, a good many more were moved to contempt for him and his views than were moved to agreement and support.

Mr. Greenwald's main problem is that he is against whoever is wielding government power at the moment. It is like the teenager who, asked what he is rebelling against, answers 'What have you got?' People who have any interest in seeing anything achieved, in terms of law and policy, make a great mistake if they conceive of people like Mr. Greenwald as allies because, at some moment when persons who oppose the laws and policies they desire are in office, they share for a time a target. Mr. Greenwald's target is government, though he veils this somewhat in the posture that he is attacking only corrupt and corrupting people in government. Since in his eyes virtually everyone who actually wields any power in government is corrupt or corrupting, lawless, a liar, a tyrant, in embryo if not yet in full flower, the effect is the same. The result is to inculcate a feeling in people that nothing can be done through government, which, protestations and hopes to the contrary, is to say in fact that nothing really can be done. Government is the only tool available by which people have any chance to rein in private power and achieve any degree of balance or redress in economic life. That government at present is far too much under control of private wealth and most responsive to the interests of private wealth does not change this.

What Mr. Greenwald does is act as a sort of 'left auxiliary' to the right wing in this country. He works to discredit government among the young on the left, to convince them government, the people who hold office in government, are unworthy, and so cannot be used as a tool for anything that might benefit people. Without a feeling that government is there to be used, the commitment of the young to fairness, to social justice and economic equity, will be as seed fallen on rocky ground. Private economic power, the engine of inequality and iniquity, which ensures life is not and will not be fair, is the only beneficiary. I am willing to do the man the courtesy of considering him intelligent enough, and possessed of sufficient self-awareness and understanding of the world around him, to be aware of this.

More from Glenn Greenwald: NYC_SKP Oct 2014 #1
Your obsession is adorable, Geek. Scootaloo Oct 2014 #2
You're denying the man has a dedicated fanbase and diehard defenders here? geek tragedy Oct 2014 #3
I don't think I've ever seen anyone call him "The greatest progressive ever to live." Scootaloo Oct 2014 #4
I'm a Greenwald fan but I have never seen anyone call him the Greatest Progressive to Ever Live Autumn Oct 2014 #5
I believe these to be Greenwald's quotes, but given your history, you need to provide a link. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2014 #6
All from glenngreenwald.blogspot.com geek tragedy Oct 2014 #10
From the world's greatest progressive ever Capt. Obvious Oct 2014 #17
I was expecting E.V. Debbs, and all I got was Grernwald? Eleanors38 Oct 2014 #7
Careful, lest you descend into self-parody. scarletwoman Oct 2014 #8
DU rec... SidDithers Oct 2014 #9
Is there a link so I can make sense of the points in this OP? freshwest Oct 2014 #11
All are direct quotes from Greenwald from geek tragedy Oct 2014 #14
Interesting And Instructive, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #12
Yes, It has been obvious to all non-Greenwald Fanboys what he was about from the beginning, sir stevenleser Oct 2014 #15
'Negative Nationalism', Sir, Is A Nice Phrase The Magistrate Oct 2014 #23
Is 'Negative Nationalism' similiar to this? freshwest Oct 2014 #26
Partially, yes. Orwell's full notes on nationalism where he describes negative nationalism stevenleser Oct 2014 #28
Thanks very much, I will search out all on that link to define this better for myself. freshwest Oct 2014 #29
Yep, it’s very telling. Chathamization Oct 2014 #34
If Governor Dean Said Anything Approximating That, Sir, He Was Wrong The Magistrate Oct 2014 #35
Not just wrong, it would mean Dean was furthering “the great project of the modern right” and Chathamization Oct 2014 #37
That Would Be The Effect, Sir, Viewed Coldly, If Any Action Were Taken On The Proposition The Magistrate Oct 2014 #38
Right, so Dean’s exempt from the “right-wing libertarian” label because he isn’t anti-war. Chathamization Oct 2014 #42
You Can Say Whatever You Want, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #44
And we're back to throwing around falsehoods about Greenwald it seems Chathamization Oct 2014 #50
You Prove Nothing, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #52
Of course Greenwald's endorsement of multiple Democrats and praise of Obama doesn't matter to you Chathamization Oct 2014 #54
O/U for Rec's for this thread is 23.5 - 12 hour limit Capt. Obvious Oct 2014 #13
I think that is right for several reasons stevenleser Oct 2014 #16
Obsess much? Savannahmann Oct 2014 #18
Damn! hootinholler Oct 2014 #21
Actually no. He and Snowden didn't tell the truth about the NSA. stevenleser Oct 2014 #24
Pfui Savannahmann Oct 2014 #30
I've debunked all of that before. Here and now we have a chance to see what Greenwald and Snowden stevenleser Oct 2014 #31
You've debunked exactly nothing, and neither has been caught in a lie DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2014 #32
I have multiple times. And now we have an opportunity to see more of what they are about. stevenleser Oct 2014 #33
Thank you. Well said. nt elias49 Oct 2014 #53
Bullshit! hootinholler Oct 2014 #19
Other famous quotes by progressive thinkers Ichingcarpenter Oct 2014 #20
I was riffing off the greatest progressive to ever live hootinholler Oct 2014 #22
Yes, I did. I was under the influence of drugs at the time. randome Oct 2014 #25
It's nice to have a hobby. nt Union Scribe Oct 2014 #27
Telling that all the quotes are from ’05, since Greenwald has since said were uninformed and wrong Chathamization Oct 2014 #36
Howard Dean wanted the SCOTUS to gut Obamacare. geek tragedy Oct 2014 #39
You should start threads attacking Howard Dean Capt. Obvious Oct 2014 #40
You May Be Over-Stating There A Bit, Sir The Magistrate Oct 2014 #45
Governor Dean expressed hope the mandate geek tragedy Oct 2014 #46
Like Some Others, Sir, He Seemed To Think That A Step Towards Making Single-Payer Viable Politically The Magistrate Oct 2014 #47
No doubt our totally non-libertarian friend was seeking to gild his own geek tragedy Oct 2014 #48
I'd say the onus is on the person digging up the 9 year old comment to: 1. Not truncate it in an Chathamization Oct 2014 #49
Mischaracterization And Praise, Sir, Are Different Things The Magistrate Oct 2014 #51
Do you have ANY evidence that "He mis-characterized Gov. Dean, in an attempt to make his own views Chathamization Oct 2014 #56
There Is No Evidence, Sir, For Describing Gov. Dean As A 'Fervent Proponent Of State's Rights' The Magistrate Oct 2014 #57
Very few people....... NCTraveler Oct 2014 #41
kick Blue_Tires Oct 2014 #43
All hail Glenn Greenwald Cali_Democrat Oct 2014 #58
K&R Cali_Democrat Oct 2014 #55
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