General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Why do I feel like Hillary is being forced on me? [View all]merrily
(45,251 posts)Since you chose to go that way, though, what is your excuse for ignoring everything in my post, criticizing me for what I did not address, then bringing up an entirely new point? What about what you never addressed?
I offer you this deal. Support your own claim that McGovern and Mondale lost those elections because they were liberals rather than simply posting a meme and expecting it to go unchallenged. Then rebut my points about why a tunnel vision view of the McGovern run doesn't prove that McGovern lost because he was a liberal. That is only respectful of the effort that I put into my prior post. Then, ask me to discuss the Mondale loss. (The Mondale loss ainst the Gipper, former head of the actors' union, former friendly host of of a respected television show, like GE Theater, that came into America's living rooms every week when there were only 3 networks competing for the attention of all Americans, and former Governor of California, after Americans had to wait on line for gas under a Democratic President, years of the hostage crisis, etc.--I imagine some of those things impacted Mondale's run, as well as Lee Atwater etc.)
I will then be happy to examine more fully whether Mondale ran as a liberal at alll; and, if so, whether Mondale lost to the Gipper because Mondale was a liberal and not for other reasons.
I know the claims about Mondale and McGovern were convenient claims for conservative Democrats to make, especially those who wanted to run for the Presidency from Southern states. However, they do not stand up to analysis, unless you use tunnel vision.
As for When Kerry ran for President, Kerry was then a member of the Senate New Democrat Caucus; i.e., not holding himself out as a liberal at all. And Kerry had the endorsement of the DLC when he ran. The DLC endorsement had originally gone to Lieberman, who had been a founding member of the DLC. However, I see that as a courtesy given Lieberman because it was clear that Lieberman never had a chance at the nom.
When Lieberman dropped out, which was relatively early in the primary, New Democrat Kerry got the DLC endorsement for that primary. So, Kerry never ran for President as a lliberal. Also, Kerry was from the Northeast in general and Massachusetts in particular, a region and a state that many political analysts had considered a dead zone for Presidents after the South went solid red.
Besides, some think that election was also stolen, though in a different state. So, the Kerry run is like the Gore run, not like the McGovern run. IOW, it hurts the meme rather than helping it.
Reagan was the reason that the Democratic Party just had to go right in order to win Presidential elections. Since Reagan though, several New Democrats ran for President as New Democrats. They were Clinton, Gore and Kerry. Of those three, only Clinton won. In 2008, Obama ran to the left of Hillary. (For purposes of this analysis, it does not matter if Obama is in fact to Hillary's left. All that matters is whether voters perceived him as to Hillary's left; and they did.)
Hillary lost the primary in 2008 and Obama won the general.
After he won in 2008, Obama said he, too, was a New Democrat. Then, he won in 2012. However, by then, he was unopposed in the primary and a war time incumbent-and no war time incumbent has ever lost a Presidential election in the US. Besides, there was that handy recording of Romney dissing 47% of Americans, including vets and seniors.
So, since Reagan, New Democrats have not proven their point about needing to go right to win Presidential elections at all. Still, the meme gets repeated as though its truth were self-evident. It isn't. It requires proof, and that is lacking.