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on point

(2,506 posts)
23. Fundamental principle: Who has sovereignty of the body?
Sun Aug 10, 2014, 12:28 AM
Aug 2014

The state or the individual? That is the fundamental question that confronts us. The progressive march of history is for rights to be held by the individual and not the state or church. This is no different and is the real right we are fighting for, even though the 'fronts' are the draft, euthanasia, gay rights, freedom of consenting adults, drug use, abortion rights, and yes prostitution.

If we focus on the principle - the right of self determination for one's own body, then the answers become clear.

I wonder how long it's going to take for someone to offer you money to go fuck yourself? Electric Monk Aug 2014 #1
Wait, they'll pay you to do that? Kurska Aug 2014 #2
According to Limbaugh, only if you post the video. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #65
I hadn't heard Limbaugh was into that, but it doesn't sound surprising. Got any links? nt Electric Monk Aug 2014 #69
Remember the Sandra Fluke bit where he called her a slut? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #73
If Limbaugh politely asks for a video of my ass. Kurska Aug 2014 #75
Ah, I see you're a traditionalist.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #90
DUzy! arcane1 Aug 2014 #6
Pretty sure that's available LittleBlue Aug 2014 #12
You survived, 5-2 n/t n2doc Aug 2014 #101
Thats illegal in Alabama. Katashi_itto Aug 2014 #127
And many marriages are also basically that ... n/t RKP5637 Aug 2014 #3
Why does your comment customerserviceguy Aug 2014 #5
Don't know ... didn't say that. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2014 #8
Just was giving you a chance to back away customerserviceguy Aug 2014 #25
People get married for all sorts of reasons IMO, for example, RKP5637 Aug 2014 #28
"Gold diggers" customerserviceguy Aug 2014 #35
... RKP5637 Aug 2014 #41
It's actually more like 'many wives are basically prostitutes', actually. nt redqueen Aug 2014 #13
I think that happens, for whatever reason, they feel trapped ... could be financial, illness, a RKP5637 Aug 2014 #30
Not so much anymore JustAnotherGen Aug 2014 #129
Yep! n/t RKP5637 Aug 2014 #132
It doesn't. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #34
OK, in the uncivilized parts of the world customerserviceguy Aug 2014 #40
After all, when isn't genocide the answer? n/t Gore1FL Aug 2014 #78
zing! Schema Thing Aug 2014 #142
It's not genocide customerserviceguy Aug 2014 #162
You advocated for their extinction. Gore1FL Aug 2014 #163
No, their ideologies do customerserviceguy Aug 2014 #164
Already happening in slow motion in places like India and China sadly. n/t Kurska Aug 2014 #85
I didn't take it that way at all. cui bono Aug 2014 #96
She said many, which to me means less than half. HERVEPA Aug 2014 #155
All. littlemissmartypants Aug 2014 #59
Exactly!!! n/t RKP5637 Aug 2014 #100
good idea! Schema Thing Aug 2014 #143
Who would you say is the most likely to pay for sex in marriage? Men or women? KitSileya Aug 2014 #99
Here is an interesting article(s) IMO ... RKP5637 Aug 2014 #102
To be honest, I just wanted to know which gender you thought so badly of, KitSileya Aug 2014 #114
I think you are misunderstanding what I said or I wrote it poorly. I don't think RKP5637 Aug 2014 #117
That's not brownie mix you're stirring. Scootaloo Aug 2014 #4
lol, that's probably a common ripost Schema Thing Aug 2014 #145
What people have said is that it's about more than you BainsBane Aug 2014 #7
You're conflating crimes with the non-crimes. Kurska Aug 2014 #10
so why don't people try to get brothels in their neighborhoods ? are there any campaigning to do so JI7 Aug 2014 #19
that's relevant how? Schema Thing Aug 2014 #146
If, if, if, if Scootaloo Aug 2014 #29
I understand your concerns, and I put value in them. Kurska Aug 2014 #33
But it's not at all "just like drugs," because drugs are not human beings Scootaloo Aug 2014 #52
Do you really think criminalization makes things better? Kurska Aug 2014 #54
What's your view on legalized slavery, then? If someone "wants" to sell themselves into servitude? Scootaloo Aug 2014 #56
People sell themselves into "survitude" all the time no one can stop them, except Kurska Aug 2014 #63
That's the thing though... Scootaloo Aug 2014 #97
what exactly do you suspect the law reorg Aug 2014 #46
Evidence shows it leads to increased human trafficking BainsBane Aug 2014 #58
again, not true reorg Aug 2014 #79
False, a 2012 study shows the opposite BainsBane Aug 2014 #111
no it doesn't reorg Aug 2014 #136
Why don't you read what the article actually demonstrates? BainsBane Aug 2014 #139
I think we know very well why so many are so desperately ignoring evidence. redqueen Aug 2014 #147
the "article" is a summary and demonstrates nothing reorg Aug 2014 #148
how do you expect they could have firm numbers of an illegal trade? BainsBane Aug 2014 #149
fine, so you admit that the numbers are questionable reorg Aug 2014 #156
They don't care that their assertions are highly dubious and in fact stevenleser Aug 2014 #180
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #106
I screwed up the link above BainsBane Aug 2014 #109
I am saying they are endemic to the industry BainsBane Aug 2014 #31
The problem is you can't separate them mythology Aug 2014 #126
Put a brothel right next to my house Kurska Aug 2014 #21
go start a campaign for it JI7 Aug 2014 #22
Dang, thought we were gonna be co-owners. Kurska Aug 2014 #26
Legalized prostitution should not be allowed in residential neighborhoods. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #36
Well isn't that nice BainsBane Aug 2014 #38
not really reorg Aug 2014 #77
I've been in some of those areas when I worked in Germany for awhile, a German RKP5637 Aug 2014 #110
Would you agree to allow brothels, with the stipulation that they be privately held coporations. Kurska Aug 2014 #39
If there is no third-party profit. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #44
+1000000 woo me with science Aug 2014 #128
why should it not be allowed in residential neighborhoods ? JI7 Aug 2014 #43
Streetwalking. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #48
And unicorns for every worker who stays over a year. Scootaloo Aug 2014 #57
Have you got a better solution? JackRiddler Aug 2014 #64
As I told Kurska, DRUGS ARE NOT PEOPLE Scootaloo Aug 2014 #94
Let's be civilized. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #135
That's pretty much how it works Scootaloo Aug 2014 #140
Look at the contradiction in your terms? JackRiddler Aug 2014 #158
well said and that is exactly the problem Tumbulu Aug 2014 #60
Maybe/Maybe not. elleng Aug 2014 #9
And there is the big question. Kurska Aug 2014 #14
Unfortunately the Public Interest overrules what we might think of as our 'rights' elleng Aug 2014 #20
"criminalise the buying, but *not* the selling" redqueen Aug 2014 #11
if it were freelance women, sure, but if a pimp gets busted, fuck him. dionysus Aug 2014 #15
yup JI7 Aug 2014 #18
"Of course you have a right to control your body" Kurska Aug 2014 #17
"Gays have always been able to legally marry..." DRoseDARs Aug 2014 #61
It reminds me of laws that criminalize only the receptive partner in gay sex. Kurska Aug 2014 #71
Your body. Their choice. DRoseDARs Aug 2014 #91
"... but taking an narrow-scope, blinders-on, absolutist stance helps RKP5637 Aug 2014 #115
when you introduce commerce/exchange money the State automatically has a role to play. KittyWampus Aug 2014 #119
Regulation and criminaliztion are the 2 roles of which you speak. DRoseDARs Aug 2014 #137
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #104
Fundamental principle: Who has sovereignty of the body? on point Aug 2014 #23
+11111111111111111111111 Kurska Aug 2014 #24
You're leaving out the profit motive and coercion. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #37
Coercion is against individual sovereignty of the body. Profit irrelevant on point Aug 2014 #45
Third-party profit totally relevant. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #50
profit is entirely relevant because the State automatically becomes involved when money is exchanged KittyWampus Aug 2014 #122
++++++ BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2014 #82
I agree. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #92
Well said Ruby the Liberal Aug 2014 #124
The exchange of money and introduction of commerce automatically gives the State KittyWampus Aug 2014 #121
It's not a matter of self determination, it's a matter of the market treestar Aug 2014 #133
I can think of many who are working from sunnystarr Aug 2014 #138
Agreed, but at least Walmart doesn't involve treestar Aug 2014 #160
All prostitutes aren't walking the streets in a low class neighborhood sunnystarr Aug 2014 #178
There ought to be a better way to make a living treestar Aug 2014 #190
I don't judge peoples decisions ... sunnystarr Aug 2014 #191
This is the part of capitalism the "right" doesn't get because emotion. flvegan Aug 2014 #27
So prostitution is "legal" as long as you don't get paid. SummerSnow Aug 2014 #32
Are you available, and what are your rates? n/t Crunchy Frog Aug 2014 #42
For you baby? Kurska Aug 2014 #47
Fine, but I'll regulate you Prophet 451 Aug 2014 #49
Sounds good to me. Kurska Aug 2014 #51
You're exactly right. Iron Man Aug 2014 #53
I pay Palmela all the time. Lobo27 Aug 2014 #55
Yep. Should be legal. LostInAnomie Aug 2014 #62
+1 n/t Kurska Aug 2014 #67
It should also be an Olympic event.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #66
There was a time when madams were powerful people in some cities. nolabear Aug 2014 #68
At an interdiscilpinary research conference, I once attended a presentation Kurska Aug 2014 #70
of course you can. People mostly aren't TELLING you you can or can't use your body as you please. BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2014 #72
I agree wholeheartedly. Kurska Aug 2014 #74
well you better put a much larger emphasis on your concern for the Good of Society, BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2014 #80
You won't find a more firey labor activist than me. Kurska Aug 2014 #83
well, I'm no expert....it sounds like your motives are pure, BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2014 #86
um Skittles Aug 2014 #177
We all contain carbon 4b5f940728b232b034e4 Aug 2014 #87
can I smack you in the snout? BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2014 #88
So do it ismnotwasm Aug 2014 #76
Legalize it, get it out of the shadows. lovemydog Aug 2014 #81
"Use the tax revenue to go after trafficking & domestic violence." Kurska Aug 2014 #84
This whole topic jumped the shark long ago mindwalker_i Aug 2014 #89
I think you're making some questionable distinctions here. Unvanguard Aug 2014 #93
Outstanding. redqueen Aug 2014 #134
Paras 1-4 confuse regulation with criminalization. Para 5 is heteronormative stevenleser Aug 2014 #179
I'm not confusing regulation with criminalization. Unvanguard Aug 2014 #181
Yes, you are. stevenleser Aug 2014 #183
Thank you for (again) not engaging the point at all. Unvanguard Aug 2014 #184
It's not much of a point if your reasoning is faulty and misstates study results. stevenleser Aug 2014 #185
Um, newsflash... prostitution is illegal. cui bono Aug 2014 #95
Careful, assert the right to make your own decisions about your own body, and risk being called Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #98
You think this is funny? BainsBane Aug 2014 #105
No. You know what I DO think is funny, though? Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #112
BS BainsBane Aug 2014 #118
You're my DU hero! RiffRandell Aug 2014 #141
Because naturally when you see someone use the term BainsBane Aug 2014 #153
... opiate69 Aug 2014 #161
Dayum Warren Kurska Aug 2014 #173
Here ya go opiate69 Aug 2014 #174
100% on point, as usual. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2014 #182
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #116
I think "Your body, your choice" only applies to one thing. Ever. The Straight Story Aug 2014 #108
A man's paying child support is comparable to slavery BainsBane Aug 2014 #151
No, let me try to explain it simply: The Straight Story Aug 2014 #154
I'm really not sure you have a right, I am sure that you do have choice HereSince1628 Aug 2014 #103
but I just saw a big fat man on a TV show called christian viewpoint that B Calm Aug 2014 #107
You have the right to perfom a sex act. But when it becomes commerce, the state KittyWampus Aug 2014 #113
Cannot believe that this survived a DU jury Ruby the Liberal Aug 2014 #120
Do you have the results? Kurska Aug 2014 #168
No - I am just making an assumption that it was juried. Ruby the Liberal Aug 2014 #187
Massage hidden by jury decision. Major Hogwash Aug 2014 #186
Well played! Ruby the Liberal Aug 2014 #188
What right is that? rock Aug 2014 #123
Economic security for those at the bottom of the ladder is one good way to minimize ... Scuba Aug 2014 #125
OK Skittles Aug 2014 #176
I'm talking about the social safety net, not working as a prostitute. If the social safety net ... Scuba Aug 2014 #189
Do you have the right to sell your organs in exchange for money? DanTex Aug 2014 #130
You actually don't in most jurisdictions treestar Aug 2014 #131
...said no trafficked 13yr old child anywhere n/t leftstreet Aug 2014 #144
Gee, you think it might be the tracking and child slavery that is wrong there? Kurska Aug 2014 #169
I would have to agree with you on this. No doubt there are financial issues in many marriages Douglas Carpenter Aug 2014 #150
Really? abelenkpe Aug 2014 #152
Rights aren't defined by the laws. Kurska Aug 2014 #167
OK go for it. Have a big sexxxytime party. Let us know how that works out for you. n/t MadrasT Aug 2014 #157
Small Point, With red light zoning adult entertainment is usually confined to industrial areas. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2014 #159
Law of averages says there is a good chance that you will be raped on the job. n/t Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #165
Because we force prostitutes into back alleys and deny them the oppertunity to work Kurska Aug 2014 #166
you mean *we* as a society? Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #170
Yes we as a society. Kurska Aug 2014 #171
Honestly - Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #172
I'm fine with that; just don't ask me to respect that choice Skittles Aug 2014 #175
I don't want to ban it. NCTraveler Aug 2014 #192
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