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ElboRuum

(4,717 posts)
69. For what it is worth...
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 09:00 PM
Apr 2012

I got halfway through reading through the replies and, well, I don't know what to tell you.

You have brought up a point that I have yet to screw up the courage to broach here, which is odd, because of all the people in the world, I would expect those here to come to my side. That is, if I hadn't see this sort of thing often with my own eyes first.

See, I am of the impression that fairness to all people, under the law, and within the society at large, is an overarching goal of liberalism. So, you can probably understand my confusion when I come here and see claims that sexism and racism perpetrated against WMS wouldn't or can't be considered racism or sexism. According to those laying claim to the definitions it is a question of power. We have it, and underlyingly, that's what the -ism is all about.

Now, maybe its my own misunderstanding that is coming up here, but I was always under the impression that all of these -isms were about the act of conflating what is a superficial state of being present from birth, but saying nothing specific about the person possessing the trait, into some statement of worth, usually pejoratively or negatively. This, however, is neither here nor there. People here have redefined their terms to suit their needs since time immemorial. Personally, this in and of itself is not a problem. If DUers want to amend those definitions in creative, yet reasonable, ways, I've got not issue.

What is a problem is the blatantly obvious hypocrisy evinced by otherwise fair minded people in their mind-boggling refusal to acknowledge the problem of singling out any group as being fair game for any sort of of negative relativism.

I know how you feel. You want to be a part of the solution, but you feel weary of having to sit at the back of conversations, regardless of whatever enlightenment you may feel you can bring to it because, in some way, you've been made to feel like you are the problem, not WMS in general, YOU. It does become personal, because when they say YOU don't get it, it IS personal. Your post has no mocking to it. Those who say it is clearly don't see the difference between a mocking tone and an exasperated one.

And people can say what they want about this. I too understand the privilege. But my conjecture is that if society is to look past the privilege to an equitable society, it's got to start locally first. That means here. Amongst those who claim to understand what a poison it is. Why would people who want equity maintain this inequity and claim, in essence, that it is fair? Oh, it won't necessarily be in those words, or it might be, but at least an implication will be there. You will feel it, just as sure as you do now.

My advice to you is as follows:

1. Speak your mind, whatever that entails. You are a member here, apparently in good standing. You deserve to be heard even if every person at DU puts you on ignore.

2. Be consistent in your opinions on this matter. Keep working for fairness and equality, even if you feel that the point is missed by those who should be in your corner.

3. Stiff upper lip. Until this attitude changes, you're going to feel like a bit of a punching bag. You are going to want to hold back your opinion because you just want to avoid a confrontation. I've been guilty of this myself, and I understand. Use your judgment, pick your battles, and remember point number 2, but never let DU bully you into silence when you feel like you have something to offer.

4. Don't feel guilty about being what you are. You had as little choice in the matter as those who are not W nor M nor S. That society confers an advantage on you because of this accident of birth is also NOT YOUR FAULT. In fact, knowing what you know now and would you have the ability to do so, if such advantage could be foregone, you'd probably give it up, like the albatross around your neck that it probably feels like. You never asked for it, probably don't want it, but it sticks to you no matter how much you "get" anything. Stop any apologism, direct or implied, for BEING.

You remarked before to another poster that this atavistic stick-poking keeps other WMS from being liberal or finding commonality with their goals, simply because it's hostile ground from go. I think this is oversimplifying a bit, but I think there is a nugget of truth there. Who wants to be a part of a group that doesn't accept them as equals? Really, life is lived in this fashion, not in some political abstraction. What is a person to make of a situation where the people they have the most in common with are the least accepting of who they are? Wild concept, and one which enjoys a disturbing amount of popularity here.

Anyway, it may not be of much comfort, but you are not alone.

On white male, hetro privilege. [View all] MadHound Apr 2012 OP
"The question is, what do you want me to do about it?" understand, recognize, acknowledge seabeyond Apr 2012 #1
I think that if I worked for the betterment of women, minorities, and the LGBT community, MadHound Apr 2012 #3
if you did "understand, recognize, and ackowledge" mzteris Apr 2012 #5
i dont see it. maybe you do, maybe you dont, i do not know. but no.... seabeyond Apr 2012 #7
Fighting for rights is easy? Then why is it called 'fighting'? DutchLiberal Apr 2012 #62
understand what? hfojvt Apr 2012 #116
Here's one idea. Skinner Apr 2012 #2
I'm not mocking it, MadHound Apr 2012 #6
It doesn't only exist "for a lot of people". It exists, period. We all get to live in it. redqueen Apr 2012 #18
Well, first off, you assume a lot. MadHound Apr 2012 #23
So it's the fault of anyone who doesn't STFU about this stuff redqueen Apr 2012 #51
Did I say STFU? No. MadHound Apr 2012 #79
"Implied guilt" = bullshit. nt redqueen Apr 2012 #84
+1 HiPointDem Apr 2012 #107
I do mock it hfojvt Apr 2012 #121
You use your white male straight privilege mzteris Apr 2012 #4
I already stated that I do just that, MadHound Apr 2012 #8
If you don't want, or are unable, ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #29
Wow, more assumptions MadHound Apr 2012 #34
Aaaaaaaaaand . . . the difference IS mzteris Apr 2012 #38
So then what the fuck is it you want from him? SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #45
How about stop ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #49
Speaking of listening to what others are really saying MadHound Apr 2012 #67
Whatever ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #76
LOL! MadHound Apr 2012 #77
And ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #81
Well, let's take President Obama MadHound Apr 2012 #90
Stop trying to compare mzteris Apr 2012 #96
Here's the problem... TriMera Apr 2012 #9
Thank you, that is the most concise, coherent answer so far MadHound Apr 2012 #14
Individual circumstances vary. TriMera Apr 2012 #19
" my life has been far worse than many people who are African-American, gay, and/or female." redqueen Apr 2012 #20
guilt is nothing more than self-serving mental masterbation noiretextatique Apr 2012 #39
"if everyone personalizes the discussion." HiPointDem Apr 2012 #108
i agree noiretextatique Apr 2012 #111
thanks for hearing what i said and responding civilly. to more of that kind of discussion. cheers. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #112
no problem noiretextatique Apr 2012 #114
another reply I'd rec if I could varelse Apr 2012 #73
Thank you. n/t TriMera Apr 2012 #82
This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Apr 2012 #10
'So what should I do to expunge this collective guilt? ' bart95 Apr 2012 #11
You know what Bart? You've got a problem. Noone is asking you to walk around in sack cloth & ashes Ecumenist Apr 2012 #26
in order to feel american, if not human noiretextatique Apr 2012 #56
And that's a damn shame. I have blood family in France, Spain and Italy and I have heard the same Ecumenist Apr 2012 #57
sort of...i live in the bay area, california noiretextatique Apr 2012 #97
here's another idea: stop identifying with the white, male power structure noiretextatique Apr 2012 #40
"stop identifying with the white, male power structure" redqueen Apr 2012 #85
yep noiretextatique Apr 2012 #98
I don't think most minorities expect us to go around apologizing for being white. RDANGELO Apr 2012 #12
^^This^^ n/t TriMera Apr 2012 #13
+2. nt bemildred Apr 2012 #22
+1 uponit7771 Apr 2012 #30
i don't...and i appreciate the contributions of white people noiretextatique Apr 2012 #41
It's not about guilt Marrah_G Apr 2012 #15
Well said. Cali_Democrat Apr 2012 #16
And we are compelled to ask a series of questions LanternWaste Apr 2012 #17
Let me speak up as another white anglosaxon straight male DefenseLawyer Apr 2012 #21
Well said. n/t DLevine Apr 2012 #24
load of baloney... msongs Apr 2012 #25
There aren't billions of white men in the United States. DefenseLawyer Apr 2012 #28
You get it ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #31
Some folk honestly don't know, they've never been exposed to other cultures enought to have uponit7771 Apr 2012 #32
I think that is very true Marrah_G Apr 2012 #35
i do not think white skin exempts anyone from classism noiretextatique Apr 2012 #43
Nor does he speak for me. And I grew up extremely poor. joshcryer Apr 2012 #60
Do what you know to be right, LadyHawkAZ Apr 2012 #27
nothing. doh1 Apr 2012 #33
The point is that they want you to shut up..... eek MD Apr 2012 #36
and who is this 1%? noiretextatique Apr 2012 #50
+1! uponit7771 Apr 2012 #53
Who are they? eek MD Apr 2012 #58
+1000 n/t ElboRuum Apr 2012 #70
you are preaching to the choir noiretextatique Apr 2012 #99
Thank you for being an ally.... eek MD Apr 2012 #100
really...who are we, as allies fighting against? noiretextatique Apr 2012 #103
Cain, bachmann, palin aside? eek MD Apr 2012 #104
talk to me when an all black or all female congressional committee noiretextatique Apr 2012 #113
............... eek MD Apr 2012 #122
i don't have a problem with discussing any ill in society noiretextatique Apr 2012 #123
"Yes, it is the truth that most white men vote republican." But they didn't always. For example, HiPointDem Apr 2012 #115
the southern strategy noiretextatique Apr 2012 #118
Yes; and the acceding to that strategy by the Democrats. Which includes the gradual withdrawl from HiPointDem Apr 2012 #124
No ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #78
Yes..... eek MD Apr 2012 #87
I think ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #105
Quote eek MD Apr 2012 #106
I think we are arriving at a meeting of the minds ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #125
Forget it man.. you can't possibly win. SomethingFishy Apr 2012 #37
i think even the OP recognizes, at least now he does noiretextatique Apr 2012 #54
+ 1,000! DutchLiberal Apr 2012 #63
Who is "angry at white men"? I'm a white man, I'm not angry. joshcryer Apr 2012 #66
Get over yourself DefenseLawyer Apr 2012 #75
I don't know you, but it sounds like you're doing what you can. Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #42
No one asked you to be guilty about white privilege any more sudopod Apr 2012 #44
+1000 noiretextatique Apr 2012 #46
I think part of the "guilt" is the unwillingness to acknowledge the reality or the lack of knowledge uponit7771 Apr 2012 #52
Boom! Brilliant reply. +1 joshcryer Apr 2012 #61
+1 fishwax Apr 2012 #80
Brilliant. nt redqueen Apr 2012 #86
And arguing as he does, he points a finger at gay and non-white people, closeupready Apr 2012 #132
This message was self-deleted by its author JonLP24 Apr 2012 #47
i am a black woman who grew up in a middle-class household noiretextatique Apr 2012 #48
Michelle Obama is an attorney and First Lady, is she shielded from racism? obamanut2012 Apr 2012 #89
I have no doubt benefitted quaker bill Apr 2012 #55
"It did not close them" That's the key... YoungDemCA Apr 2012 #102
No one is saying "none of this matters." No one. joshcryer Apr 2012 #59
Not outright, but it IS implied a lot by a small, but very vocal minority. DutchLiberal Apr 2012 #64
One may feel it is implied if they are too sensitive, I think. joshcryer Apr 2012 #65
Okay, scratch "implied", sometimes it's outright SAID. DutchLiberal Apr 2012 #71
They said he should "be guilty" or that "none of this matters"? joshcryer Apr 2012 #72
i don't have white guilt, even if i do have white privilege CreekDog Apr 2012 #68
For what it is worth... ElboRuum Apr 2012 #69
Post removed Post removed Apr 2012 #74
Maybe you could join stormfront or vnnforum, good luck in your white priviledge journey!! Obamacare Apr 2012 #83
Wow, you simply don't do nuance, do you? MadHound Apr 2012 #91
unwarranted & not funny. namecalling & personal attack. HiPointDem Apr 2012 #110
Well since I personally never attack anyone based on superficialities such lunatica Apr 2012 #88
Another one who makes a huge leap, MadHound Apr 2012 #92
Yes, we want you to give part of your paycheck to ecstatic Apr 2012 #93
"The blah people?" MadHound Apr 2012 #94
Santorum coined the term ecstatic Apr 2012 #95
As a white straight male myself, here's what you (really, WE) can do.... YoungDemCA Apr 2012 #101
very well said- Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #120
The greatest of good deeds go unnoticed. stlsaxman Apr 2012 #109
I hear you. But just imagine how worse off you would've been if you'd been female, black, Honeycombe8 Apr 2012 #117
stop focusing on yourself- the "guilt" you feel, Bluerthanblue Apr 2012 #119
I'm suddenly curious about how many women agree with this kind of sentiment. redqueen Apr 2012 #126
i asked my friend kate about this noiretextatique Apr 2012 #127
Seems to me that most women would be more likely to get it... redqueen Apr 2012 #131
How about if you just leave me the fark alone. closeupready Apr 2012 #128
And you poor baby, tired of helping those less advantaged than you. closeupready Apr 2012 #129
This message was self-deleted by its author closeupready Apr 2012 #130
you don't represent all men. Whisp Apr 2012 #133
Brah...seems you are venting, and attacking the messengers. Zorra Apr 2012 #134
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»On white male, hetro priv...»Reply #69