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pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
21. Psychological experiments might not sound as gruesome but they're still experiments.
Wed Jul 2, 2014, 02:36 PM
Jul 2014

And I can hardly believe -- but it's true -- that Boston Children's ethics policies allowed wards of the state to be used as subjects in research studies that carried significant risks, even if there was no expected direct benefit to the child.

"Potential new treatments" don't always work. Sometimes they fail miserably. If a child is dying and there is no other treatment, then maybe an exception to consent laws should be made. Otherwise, studies should NEVER involve anyone without consent -- parental consent, in the case of children.

We used to carry out research on children in orphanages and on prisoners, without anyone's consent. This was wrong then and it's wrong now.

After reading this, I'm as outraged by this case as you are, but you realize tularetom Jul 2014 #1
The problem is that they are the ONLY places where you can find an interview pnwmom Jul 2014 #5
It's always been right wing sources. They've taken up this cause. kcr Jul 2014 #22
How do you see it? pnwmom Jul 2014 #51
She wasn't kidnapped to beging with and I doubt highly that she was tortured or expiremented on kcr Jul 2014 #54
She wasn't kidnapped? The parents lost custody for more than 16 months pnwmom Jul 2014 #60
Losing custody isn't the same as being kidnapped. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #61
It's just a matter of diction in circumstances like this. But you were the person pnwmom Jul 2014 #79
Only if you frame it the way the RW lunatics are. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #81
To the family, that's exactly how it felt. They brought their sick child to see a G.I. doc pnwmom Jul 2014 #98
As opposed to all the other families who've lost custody, who admit their wrongdoing kcr Jul 2014 #102
The critical difference here is that the state's only claim against them is that they were pnwmom Jul 2014 #109
And it could possibly be true kcr Jul 2014 #112
The state shouldn't grab custody for 16 months because of something that could "possibly be true." pnwmom Jul 2014 #114
Of course not kcr Jul 2014 #116
There's zero evidence that the parents were overmedicalizing her. pnwmom Jul 2014 #119
And you know this how? From the parents and their media representation? kcr Jul 2014 #122
From the Boston Globe and the Hartford Courant. pnwmom Jul 2014 #127
So? That can't possibly be a reason to remove a child from care? kcr Jul 2014 #130
It was NOT a good reason to remove a child from care pnwmom Jul 2014 #137
How do we know they didn't bother? Did they admit that themselves? kcr Jul 2014 #143
Because I believe the Tufts doctor, and that was his sworn testimony at a hearing. pnwmom Jul 2014 #149
One doctor, who isn't convinced his own diagnosis may be wrong. kcr Jul 2014 #151
He testified that the doctors wouldn't speak with him. That was evidence. pnwmom Jul 2014 #158
That's not evidence they didn't consult with anyone. kcr Jul 2014 #160
They didn't consult with the ONE person who knew more about her case and pnwmom Jul 2014 #166
Doctors are never wrong. Except when the ones not on your side. kcr Jul 2014 #169
So why should the state be able to choose the diagnosis of the psychiatrists pnwmom Jul 2014 #173
It's your and the parent's claim that that's what happened. kcr Jul 2014 #180
I'm not alleging a conspiracy. But there is overwhelming evidence pnwmom Jul 2014 #182
What evidence? kcr Jul 2014 #183
Read the court documents. You can find them. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #185
I have. kcr Jul 2014 #197
The Boston docs refused to even liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #287
Claims made by the parents and their supporters kcr Jul 2014 #303
Sorry, but her own CT doctors liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #308
That's assuming the claim about it being about a disagreement over a diagnosis is correct. kcr Jul 2014 #309
Taking a child away from her parents is supposed to require some evidence to back it up. pnwmom Jul 2014 #436
In this case, it was, it's just a matter liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #285
Parents who've had their children removed aren't allowed to see their children whenever they want kcr Jul 2014 #302
So parents who suddenly and without hardly liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #310
What psychiatrist said he didn't believe in it? BCH has specialists in mitochondial disease. kcr Jul 2014 #311
What you are saying might have made some sense before but everything is completely pnwmom Jul 2014 #326
If BC admitted they were wrong, it should be easy for you to show where that happened. kcr Jul 2014 #331
They recommended she be returned to her old doctors and her family. That is fact. nt pnwmom Jul 2014 #334
And that's admitting they were wrong how? kcr Jul 2014 #335
Save your fingertips. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #341
Way to twist my words. kcr Jul 2014 #350
"It's stating there's a lack of evidence." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #356
I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims. kcr Jul 2014 #358
"I'm not accusing the Pelletiers of lying. I just require evidence to back up their claims." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #360
I guess my bias is showing by not accepting a questionable source kcr Jul 2014 #364
Either the video is an accurate depiciton of reality or it is not. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #368
My assertion isn't that it's not accurate. My assertion is the source is questionable. kcr Jul 2014 #373
Nothing makes it questionable except your bias. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #376
My bias against RW sources? Guilty as charged. kcr Jul 2014 #378
The RW didn't create the video. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #383
So if a UFO conspiracy site doesn't actually make the video they post as evidence kcr Jul 2014 #384
What you're being required to defend is your unsupported, evidence-free allegations. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #392
It's unsupported that RW sources can't be trusted? kcr Jul 2014 #394
That's not what I said and you know it. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #403
It seems that's what you're saying to me. kcr Jul 2014 #406
There was NO significant evidence of harm, abuse, or neglect. None. Zero. Zilch. pnwmom Jul 2014 #438
Justina isn't a UFO. She's a real human being, who people like you pnwmom Jul 2014 #437
What frightens me the most about it is liberalhistorian Jul 2014 #284
good for McDermott KT2000 Jul 2014 #2
We don't know the whole story and I'm skeptical this is the whole truth. n/t seaglass Jul 2014 #3
The fact is that the state finally returned her to the care of her Tufts doctors, pnwmom Jul 2014 #6
Appreciate McDermott, the OP and analysis more than you'll ever know. You have my heartfelt thanks. freshwest Jul 2014 #276
Thank you, freshwest! n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #277
Same here Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #14
I'm sure there will be more once the parents file suit. pnwmom Jul 2014 #17
It stinks to high heaven that right wing sites are the only place for "news" on this. alarimer Jul 2014 #235
The Boston Globe is a liberal paper, and the Hartford Courant is, too. pnwmom Jul 2014 #267
K&R me b zola Jul 2014 #4
Other than the "parent-ectomy", what was the experimental treatment? moriah Jul 2014 #7
A combination of withdrawing her medications -- which is a treatment in itself -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #9
If the misdiagnosis was not done intentionally, treating for a misdiagnosed condition is not.... moriah Jul 2014 #13
It is experimenting if she was enrolled as a subject in a research study pnwmom Jul 2014 #15
"Experimental treatment" vs "experimenting on kids".... moriah Jul 2014 #18
Psychological experiments might not sound as gruesome but they're still experiments. pnwmom Jul 2014 #21
"Behavior modification" sounds pretty gruesome to me - hedgehog Jul 2014 #260
It is. Imagine that you are very sick, painfully sick, with intense abdominal pain, pnwmom Jul 2014 #268
Which raises the question, just what the hell is "behavior modification"? hedgehog Jul 2014 #273
I bet we never find out. I bet that the hospital and insurance company lawyers pnwmom Jul 2014 #279
And it's used to treat ADHD, conduct disorder, etc, too. moriah Jul 2014 #278
Behavioral modification shouldn't be a legitimate treatment for somatic disorder. pnwmom Jul 2014 #288
Shades of gray here disequilibrium1 Jul 2014 #289
Thank you for all the links, disequilibrium1, pnwmom Jul 2014 #434
Is "somatic disorder" a real disease? I had the impression that the Harvard doctors came up hedgehog Jul 2014 #259
They used to think asthma was psychosomatic, until they figured out it wasn't. pnwmom Jul 2014 #269
It's in the DSM-V. moriah Jul 2014 #280
Yes, and it's very controversial. The editor of the DSM-IV pnwmom Jul 2014 #435
You aren't telling me things I don't know, I promise you. moriah Jul 2014 #442
Absolutely. A person can have both physical and mental or emotional conditions pnwmom Jul 2014 #443
I know this family gaspee Jul 2014 #8
Thank you for speaking up. To me, their "rude" reaction to the social workers pnwmom Jul 2014 #10
Justina is now also paralyzed from the waist down. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #11
When she got the flu -- the cause of her going to the ER -- she was severely weakened pnwmom Jul 2014 #12
She now has no feeling below the waist according to the family riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #16
Please tell me this is a temporary condition. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #80
Well the Boston Children's docs, judge and MA DCF better hope so. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #100
With mitochondrial disease, no one can know. pnwmom Jul 2014 #282
Wow! The Blaze thinks liberals are to blame. You've convinced me! FSogol Jul 2014 #19
I think many progressives who should have cared about this pnwmom Jul 2014 #23
"We"? In stories were it is difficult (to impossible) to tell who is right, FSogol Jul 2014 #28
I read enough in the Boston Globe's investigative reporting pnwmom Jul 2014 #30
"These are facts, according to the Boston Globe -- not a conservative rag." Great, then why bring FSogol Jul 2014 #32
Because Justina's video only got published by the Blaze. pnwmom Jul 2014 #34
Because they're the ones reporting the cray cray that some feel back their position kcr Jul 2014 #63
Some progressives are just statists Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #174
Thanks, Puzzledtraveller. pnwmom Jul 2014 #176
Do you agree with the statement that liberals are statists? kcr Jul 2014 #181
Not liberals in general, no. pnwmom Jul 2014 #184
Wait, I thought they used experimental treatments? kcr Jul 2014 #186
They did both. They withheld her medications pnwmom Jul 2014 #188
Withholding the treatments they thought were harming her is logical kcr Jul 2014 #193
No, it isn't. pnwmom Jul 2014 #201
Again. Not including that one doctor isn't evidence they didn't consult anyone else about her care. kcr Jul 2014 #207
Doesn't matter. He was the SINGLE most important doctor to consult pnwmom Jul 2014 #215
Yes, it does. kcr Jul 2014 #219
Yes, the Harvard M.D.eities "didn't wish to consult with that doctor." That says it all. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #222
Says what? kcr Jul 2014 #224
Of course they needed to. Obtaining her medical history would have been pnwmom Jul 2014 #227
Now the claim is they didn't obtain her medical history? kcr Jul 2014 #229
They absolutely didn't do that before making their decision -- which was done within 12 hours pnwmom Jul 2014 #232
How long does it take to obtain medical records? kcr Jul 2014 #233
The doctor needed to SPEAK to them and he was prevented from doing so. pnwmom Jul 2014 #236
It's your contention he needed to speak to them. kcr Jul 2014 #252
It is HIS contention he needed to speak to them. And he knew Justina, pnwmom Jul 2014 #255
Are you talking about her doctor from Tufts again? kcr Jul 2014 #256
BC is a consultant for DCF on medical issues. This is a fact, not tinfoil. pnwmom Jul 2014 #257
What's tinfoil is suggesting that the hospital being "consultants" is evidence of collusion. kcr Jul 2014 #306
It is evidence of conflict of interest. They weren't in the position to give a neutral opinion. pnwmom Jul 2014 #313
It seems to me that's what you're advocating kcr Jul 2014 #315
Did you read any of my previous posts? pnwmom Jul 2014 #316
Yes. I don't see the conspiracy you do. kcr Jul 2014 #322
They didn't have an imagined conflict of interest. They had a genuine conflict of interest. pnwmom Jul 2014 #325
Explain the conflict of interest kcr Jul 2014 #328
The same person performing a work pnwmom Jul 2014 #339
That's not the same thing as recognizing abuse. kcr Jul 2014 #344
The ONLY allegation of abuse was "overmedicalizing." pnwmom Jul 2014 #346
Guess what? That's a form of abuse. kcr Jul 2014 #347
Guess what? It's not overmedicalizing when it's treatment for a REAL condition pnwmom Jul 2014 #354
What does the fact that it's a REAL condition have to do with anything? kcr Jul 2014 #357
Sorry, but a source that you don't recall is worthless. I'm very familiar with the Globe pnwmom Jul 2014 #361
You got me, I'm totally making it up! Meanwhile, someone who sources the Daily Fail kcr Jul 2014 #363
At least I was open about those sources. Not telling you to trust my memory. pnwmom Jul 2014 #366
I'm not stopping you from forming your own opinions. kcr Jul 2014 #370
The Blaze was a valid source of Justina's videotaped interview. pnwmom Jul 2014 #372
Uh huh. Sure they are. kcr Jul 2014 #374
The only red flag is waving at the MSM's negligence in covering the story fully. pnwmom Jul 2014 #379
I don't think MSM needs to jump on every cause the RWers think is just. kcr Jul 2014 #380
This story was. Progressives value fairness and justice -- and children -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #381
That could be the explanation kcr Jul 2014 #385
Whatever drew the right to her cause, no one should be subjected pnwmom Jul 2014 #386
No one should be subjected to it? I disagree. Children would die if DCF were dismantled. kcr Jul 2014 #389
She had the right not to be ripped from her family and locked in a psychiatric ward pnwmom Jul 2014 #395
A judge ruled in a court of law. How much more due process do you want? kcr Jul 2014 #398
A judge rubber-stamped the DCF recommendation, which was written without pnwmom Jul 2014 #400
A judge rubber stamped the DCF rubber stamping of the hospital kidnapping. kcr Jul 2014 #401
The judge and the hospital had a longstanding, working relationship that led the judge pnwmom Jul 2014 #402
Does the working relationship involve cackling with glee from their elite ivory tower kcr Jul 2014 #404
I don't have the kind of vivid imagination you obviously do, so the answer is no. pnwmom Jul 2014 #414
I'm usually accused of the opposite when I don't believe conspiracy theories. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #415
You're the only one here alleging imaginary conspiracy theories. pnwmom Jul 2014 #420
If it walks like a conspiracy theory, etc kcr Jul 2014 #422
The judge returned Justina to continue to be "overmedicalized" by Tufts and her parents riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #407
Oh, so he didn't rubber stamp it then. Or did he rubber stamp it, then un-rubber stamp it? kcr Jul 2014 #409
I damn well hope the judge did that. As conditions changed. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #412
It seems to me a rubber stamping careless judge wouldn't take the time to be flexible. kcr Jul 2014 #413
That better not be a typical pattern -- more than a year on a locked psychiatric ward pnwmom Jul 2014 #418
Why shouldnl't it be? The judgment to return children should be rushed? kcr Jul 2014 #421
When there's no immediate risk of serious harm, which there wasn't, any judgment pnwmom Jul 2014 #423
That's exactly what he did. At the end, he finally un-rubber stamped it. pnwmom Jul 2014 #416
Very complicated rubber stamping n/t kcr Jul 2014 #417
That's why they pay him the big bucks. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #419
I thought there were some strange things about this case ck4829 Jul 2014 #20
You're asking a lot of good questions. pnwmom Jul 2014 #25
Sorry, don't trust The Blaze to report this story without extreme bias...nt SidDithers Jul 2014 #24
Really. Anti-government whackos claim she was experimented on. kcr Jul 2014 #26
Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, believes she was experimented on. pnwmom Jul 2014 #52
I don't think wards of the state should be expiremented on either kcr Jul 2014 #57
It is a fact that it is legal in the state of Massachusetts to enroll wards of the state pnwmom Jul 2014 #64
So, if there's a cancer drug that hasn't been approved yet kcr Jul 2014 #67
I would support an exception in that kind of situation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #72
If there is a problem with unnecessary treatments involving wards of state kcr Jul 2014 #74
Then take the word of Rep. Jim McDermott, Democrat and one of the most liberal pnwmom Jul 2014 #77
Liberal doesn't mean immune to being hoodwinked. kcr Jul 2014 #82
That's absolutely true. pnwmom Jul 2014 #93
How is that possible? The Harvard psychiatrists aren't the ones running and squawking to the media. kcr Jul 2014 #97
They believed the Harvard psychiatrists' diagnosis that she had a somatic disorder. pnwmom Jul 2014 #101
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me that's not true kcr Jul 2014 #103
You have no way of knowing. Correct. So don't you think that when there's a reasonable doubt, pnwmom Jul 2014 #107
If that were indeed the case, then yes. kcr Jul 2014 #110
Yes -- the parents were rude to the social workers. And so the social workers, apparently, pnwmom Jul 2014 #117
No, this wasn't rudeness to the social workers I'm talking about. kcr Jul 2014 #120
As reported by the social workers who felt insulted. pnwmom Jul 2014 #132
It wasn't social workers who reported this kcr Jul 2014 #138
Then don't read that. Watch the interview with Justina herself. pnwmom Jul 2014 #27
Publish or perish affects health professionals, too. So yeah, I can believe Boston Childrens McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #29
Unfortunately, YarnAddict Jul 2014 #38
Not crying any tears for the insurance companies. McCamy Taylor Jul 2014 #106
I suspect their lawyers and insurance companies are already urging a quick settlement. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #141
DUers got outraged about this more than once while she was being held. ieoeja Jul 2014 #31
Some did -- but all you have to do is read this thread to find some who still pnwmom Jul 2014 #33
THAT part of the story is where I utterly disagree with the OP Trajan Jul 2014 #205
I'm not accusing liberals of hurting her. I'm asking why the MSM and the "liberal media" pnwmom Jul 2014 #270
I wish we could champion the cause of every child who isn't getting proper care... DesertDiamond Jul 2014 #35
This wasn't just a case of improper care. This was a case of the state vs. the parents. pnwmom Jul 2014 #39
The Blaze? Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #36
If you can find another link to a video interview with Justina, pnwmom Jul 2014 #40
You do? I've heard plenty of interviews that were manipulative and selective. Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #48
So there isn't one. Just as I thought. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #49
When this case has come up for discussion before YarnAddict Jul 2014 #37
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #41
Post a link proving that or admit that you're lying. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #46
Just check on google news and you will see pnwmom Jul 2014 #43
I see what you mean. YarnAddict Jul 2014 #47
Yes, exactly. The Boston Globe got the ball rolling, but most of the media quickly pnwmom Jul 2014 #50
I thought it was the Globe YarnAddict Jul 2014 #53
Right. The Herald is the right wing paper, the Globe's on the left. pnwmom Jul 2014 #56
Hopefully your family members YarnAddict Jul 2014 #58
Thanks. pnwmom Jul 2014 #62
As a Moderator of an 11,000 member group aimed at Freeing Justina fcefxer Jul 2014 #292
It is a shame that YarnAddict Jul 2014 #293
The liberal media is in on it, too? kcr Jul 2014 #305
No, the problem is that most of the MSM did not "get in on it." pnwmom Jul 2014 #427
Thank you very much for the info, fcefxer. pnwmom Jul 2014 #426
Something doesn't square about this story. Helen Borg Jul 2014 #42
Typical reaction. Harvard docs could never be wrong, pnwmom Jul 2014 #44
Mass DCF is the most incompent and corrupt governement organization you can imagine hack89 Jul 2014 #45
Of course it is. That's always the claim, no matter where these stories happen kcr Jul 2014 #55
No - some government agencies bad hack89 Jul 2014 #65
Oh, some agencies. Funny how it's always the ones featured in RW anti-government screeds. kcr Jul 2014 #69
More than 95 kids have died since 2001 while in the custody of DCF hack89 Jul 2014 #70
DCF is horribly underfunded kcr Jul 2014 #78
They are still woefully incompent regardless of the reasons - they are killing kids hack89 Jul 2014 #84
The kids are killed in foster care. kcr Jul 2014 #88
They die at a higher rate under DCF care hack89 Jul 2014 #99
More children die under DCF than by the hands of their own parents? kcr Jul 2014 #105
Exactly how many kids should die under DCF? merrily Jul 2014 #124
None. But claiming DCF kills more needs to be backed up. kcr Jul 2014 #125
This is what the Boston Globe has to say hack89 Jul 2014 #133
That's not the same thing. kcr Jul 2014 #153
Where in fuck do you get this anti- government shit from? hack89 Jul 2014 #157
Because it's anti-government folks who've taken up their case kcr Jul 2014 #161
So anyone who supports them has to be anti-government? hack89 Jul 2014 #208
No. kcr Jul 2014 #209
So instead of smearing me as RW hack89 Jul 2014 #211
Where did I smear you as RW? kcr Jul 2014 #217
Every time you try to deflect the conversation hack89 Jul 2014 #218
I didn't associate you with them. kcr Jul 2014 #220
"BUt the solution isn't to side with anti-government whackos" hack89 Jul 2014 #223
Well it isn't. Underfunding DCF is the wrong solution. kcr Jul 2014 #228
Ok nt hack89 Jul 2014 #240
Only because the rest of the media dropped the ball. pnwmom Jul 2014 #272
Remind me who has underfunded Mass DCF for decades. Government, right? merrily Jul 2014 #123
It isn't liberal progressives pushing for underfunding. n/t kcr Jul 2014 #128
LOL, a non sequitur, a straw man and a moved goalpost, all in one sentence. merrily Jul 2014 #134
A non sequitor? It's ultra right wingers pressing these claims kcr Jul 2014 #136
Sorry, that's non-sequitur. My bad. But, yes, you posted a non-sequitur. merrily Jul 2014 #144
I'm repeating it because it's true. kcr Jul 2014 #146
"Political forces were at play." I call bullshit. merrily Jul 2014 #152
What is bullshit about my claim? kcr Jul 2014 #154
Please see Reply 146. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #156
146 shows up for me as my own reply kcr Jul 2014 #165
Sorry. Charge the error up to boredom. I meant Reply 152. merrily Jul 2014 #171
Oh, the one where you continue to ignore kcr Jul 2014 #189
Please see Reply 152. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #191
The parents asked everyone they could think of to help them and a year later pnwmom Jul 2014 #317
So all the liberals who ignored it are in on it, too. kcr Jul 2014 #323
Yes. Good thing someone finally helped them. pnwmom Jul 2014 #324
Parents reacting strongly to losing their children. Because that normally doesn't happen? kcr Jul 2014 #333
They were WRONG. She has a metabolic disease and that's why they CHANGED pnwmom Jul 2014 #336
No, you're only believing the spin that returning her to her parents is evidence they were wrong. kcr Jul 2014 #337
Why not immediately admit their mistake? Good question. pnwmom Jul 2014 #338
Well, of course. Evil Elite Doctors have egos. That explains everything! n/t kcr Jul 2014 #348
Those doctors obviously did. They wouldn't even allow the Pelletiers pnwmom Jul 2014 #353
If only there was some way to break the RW's ironclad reign in Massachusetts. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #340
Where do I claim they have reign? kcr Jul 2014 #345
I was responding to your sub-thread that DCF in Massachusetts was under-funded. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #349
Now, this makes no sense. kcr Jul 2014 #351
You claim DCF is under-funded. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #359
Whatevs. I was responding to a poster that claimed they are corrupt kcr Jul 2014 #362
"But go ahead and point out where DCF is actually adequately funded, by all means." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #365
Oh, believe me I know it. Right wingers think it's funded plenty. kcr Jul 2014 #367
RWers don't write the budget in Massachusetts. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #369
I know, it's like believing in Santa, isn't it? kcr Jul 2014 #371
I didn't say RWers don't exist and you know that. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #375
You say you're not saying it. Then you go on to repeat the claim. kcr Jul 2014 #377
Just because it can be cut doesn't mean it has been cut. If you're Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #382
But because it's a right wing source kcr Jul 2014 #390
Show us these alleged cuts. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #393
Show that right wing sources are to be trusted and never manipulate kcr Jul 2014 #396
This sub-thread is about your allegation of cuts to the DCF budget, not the video. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #405
Then why are we discussing the video? kcr Jul 2014 #408
In this sub-thread I have confined my comments to the MA budget. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #410
Oh, wait. My bad. You're right. kcr Jul 2014 #411
I'm not arguing if RW sources are valid and you know it. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #439
You'd think if they were so short of funds they wouldn't be wasting their money pnwmom Jul 2014 #425
PNW, please use "DoNotLink" for crank sites like The Blaze and Guardian LV. alp227 Jul 2014 #59
Thanks, apl227. I've just learned something new. pnwmom Jul 2014 #68
Excellent post. K&R. I hope when Justina and her family sue they win a huge award. Louisiana1976 Jul 2014 #66
They're all in individual and family therapy, so I doubt they're going to sue frazzled Jul 2014 #76
She got better?? She's now paralyzed from the waist down. No feeling below the waist riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #96
Read all the articles, not just the claptrap in right-wing rags frazzled Jul 2014 #145
I read that on ABC News... riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #179
Read all the Boston Globe articles. And those on Hartford Courant. pnwmom Jul 2014 #203
She didn't get better physically. She's happier because they finally let her go. pnwmom Jul 2014 #104
Good for the author's mea culpa but most here at DU were on the right side of this. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #71
As someone who has been posting on her behalf, I ran into plenty of DUers pnwmom Jul 2014 #75
I would hate think you're right about the resistance you've encountered but nowadays Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #85
Thanks, Nuclear Unicorn. You can see the range of reactions just to this OP alone. pnwmom Jul 2014 #87
And then there's the range of opinions in general on DU kcr Jul 2014 #89
I haven't noticed anyone siding with Hobby Lobby, but I'll take your word for it. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #92
Just ask the poster you responded to above n/t kcr Jul 2014 #95
Right, because we totally believe anti-government whackos when it's concerning a red state. kcr Jul 2014 #86
Rep. McDermott isn't an anti-government whacko, and neither is the Boston Globe, pnwmom Jul 2014 #90
You don't strike me as an anti-government whacko, either. kcr Jul 2014 #91
Based on what? Your unsupported belief that nothing in certain sources ever contains merrily Jul 2014 #113
No kcr Jul 2014 #115
Untrue. That was substantiated by video of her ice skating before she merrily Jul 2014 #118
It's local for me, too. kcr Jul 2014 #135
The claim of paralysis was made while she was still in DCF care and merrily Jul 2014 #139
Not contradicted. Not a surprise given she was in medical care kcr Jul 2014 #140
Really? I've seen doctors talk to media about patients in whom merrily Jul 2014 #148
Oh, the doctors don't deny it or admit they were wrong? kcr Jul 2014 #150
Still nothing to say? Please see Reply 146. Thanks. merrily Jul 2014 #155
Nothing to say? I already responded to that comment kcr Jul 2014 #159
Sorry. I meant, "Still nothing of substance to say? Please see Reply 152. merrily Jul 2014 #175
The parents are reporting that. Here's an ABC news report on it riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #162
Again, the parents. kcr Jul 2014 #178
For some reason, you think parents are guilty until proven innocent. pnwmom Jul 2014 #192
No, I don't. I've repeatedly said I don't know if they're guilty or not or if the hospital kcr Jul 2014 #194
They shouldn't have been able to take her away from her parents pnwmom Jul 2014 #200
Not true. The hospital reported their suspicion, DCF acted on it and a judge ruled in their favor. kcr Jul 2014 #206
There was no compelling evidence. The DCF usually has BC investigate its cases -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #212
What support do you have for the claim there was no compelling evidence? Aside from the parents? kcr Jul 2014 #216
When you advocate take away someone's freedom, it's YOUR job to provide the compelling evidence. pnwmom Jul 2014 #226
I don't advocate taking away freedom. kcr Jul 2014 #231
The extraordinary claim was that she had munchhausen by proxy syndrome, pnwmom Jul 2014 #239
Far less common means it isn't possible? kcr Jul 2014 #242
No. But "possible" isn't the standard when you advocate taking custody from parents, pnwmom Jul 2014 #244
And your contention that was the standard is? kcr Jul 2014 #245
The hospital IS the medical staff for the DCF. There was no functional pnwmom Jul 2014 #247
DCF only takes reports from that hospital? kcr Jul 2014 #250
DCF sends cases to BC with medical issues that they're concerned about. pnwmom Jul 2014 #271
The tinfoil is suggesting that they're colluding with a sinister purpose kcr Jul 2014 #307
I didn't say that. I said there's an inherent conflict of interest pnwmom Jul 2014 #312
Conflict of interest? kcr Jul 2014 #314
You obviously don't even understand what a "conflict of interest" is. pnwmom Jul 2014 #318
It is easily verified. And it wasn't done because she has mitochondrial disease per se. pnwmom Jul 2014 #440
Use your eyeballs. She was skating a few weeks before. She's in a wheelchair now. pnwmom Jul 2014 #163
Video of her in a wheelchair taken by the parents. kcr Jul 2014 #167
There are plenty of pictures of her in the hospital and in court in a wheelchair. pnwmom Jul 2014 #170
I'm sure they'd rather not drag her in there frogmarching her and forcing her to walk. kcr Jul 2014 #177
So she's faking it. And after more than a year, the Harvard docs couldn't figure that out. Right. pnwmom Jul 2014 #187
Actually, that might be exactly what they did. kcr Jul 2014 #195
Except even B.C. has never accused Justina of that. Only you. pnwmom Jul 2014 #199
I haven't accused anyone of anything. kcr Jul 2014 #210
Then why would they agree to let her go back to her parents and the docs at Tufts riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #204
Children returning to their parents doesn't mean it was determined there was no case. kcr Jul 2014 #213
Really? Now your slip is really showing. riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #225
The claim that it's about dueling medical teams is spin kcr Jul 2014 #230
It's not spin. It's fact. pnwmom Jul 2014 #234
The parents didn't agree with the new diagnosis kcr Jul 2014 #237
They had an extremely sick daughter -- you can die from vomiting, by the way -- pnwmom Jul 2014 #241
I'm not arguing she wasn't sick kcr Jul 2014 #243
Wrong. They went to Tufts not because of the mito doctor, pnwmom Jul 2014 #246
Maybe, but I would find it hard to believe that the mito doctors weren't consulted kcr Jul 2014 #248
They finally were, months later. And eventually, after a year, the judge gave her care pnwmom Jul 2014 #249
The specialists are right there, in that hospital, but weren't consulted for months? kcr Jul 2014 #251
The GI specialist who was right there wasn't allowed to consult in her care. pnwmom Jul 2014 #253
Is that another contention from the parents? kcr Jul 2014 #254
It's not hard to believe at all, given the document that they wanted the Pelletiers to sign. pnwmom Jul 2014 #428
YES! I hope they do!! riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #238
What are... onyourleft Jul 2014 #73
The ones with Harvard degrees who get to make decisions about patients pnwmom Jul 2014 #202
Trust me: When social workers want your rights taken away, they can get them taken away. WinkyDink Jul 2014 #83
Not always. I was present when a judge refused to remove merrily Jul 2014 #131
The part I find troubling: merrily Jul 2014 #94
I am willing to consider the possibility that their egos were so large pnwmom Jul 2014 #111
Also an echo of common medical practice, not to mention common sense. merrily Jul 2014 #121
"No one has to tell Harvard docs the ABC's of medical practice." pnwmom Jul 2014 #129
No, they'd be wasting their breath. They knew very well merrily Jul 2014 #164
Thank you, merrily. pnwmom Jul 2014 #221
Correct: The Boston Globe is NOT right wing. merrily Jul 2014 #258
K&R. Crunchy Frog Jul 2014 #108
Tufts Boston Medical Ctr. originally filed allegations of neglect countryjake Jul 2014 #126
Not her doctor and not Tufts itself -- some member of the staff. pnwmom Jul 2014 #147
So her CT pediatrician wasn't actually her original doctor, either? countryjake Jul 2014 #196
Justina had what some psychiatrists at BC considered extreme procedures pnwmom Jul 2014 #198
If you have a sick child with an undiagnosed disease, of course you're going to "doctor-shop". hedgehog Jul 2014 #261
For comparison: hedgehog Jul 2014 #262
Thanks for this. Parents probably get swept up in horrible situations pnwmom Jul 2014 #266
Yes. Especially when it's a rare disease. Her CT doctor referred her pnwmom Jul 2014 #265
Very interesting and vitally important. I am looking forward to reading more, thank you. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2014 #142
I saw this story on Dr. Phil libodem Jul 2014 #168
I'd like to see that. I'll have to see if it's online. n/t pnwmom Jul 2014 #190
K&R Puzzledtraveller Jul 2014 #172
KNR Lucinda Jul 2014 #214
I've watched this discussion with disgust. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #263
Thank you for your righteous indignation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #264
"HYPE? The girl is in a wheelchair." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2014 #274
It isn't only because the sources are right wing. kcr Jul 2014 #301
If it wasn't overreach, it was serious malfeasance. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #319
So, we shouldn't be snowed by those elite Harvard doctors kcr Jul 2014 #321
My point was there was no evidence. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #327
Well, isn't that a coincidence. That's my point, too. kcr Jul 2014 #329
Since when is providing medical care for your child abuse? Savannahmann Jul 2014 #330
Since people have been attempting to seek medical care unnecessarily kcr Jul 2014 #332
I imagine it's difficult to walk across the room with blinders like that on. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #342
Not at all. Children need protection and sometimes that means from their parents. kcr Jul 2014 #343
It doesn't apply in this case. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #355
I'm just going to stand over here by you. Righteous rant. Thanks for this nt riderinthestorm Jul 2014 #387
"But claiming the parents are unfit for following medical advice is the question here" kcr Jul 2014 #399
Really? Savannahmann Jul 2014 #424
That is all they were ever accused of doing and you know it. The documents are out there now pnwmom Jul 2014 #432
+ a million. Thanks for this. pnwmom Jul 2014 #431
Not at all. Savannahmann Jul 2014 #441
In this case a child needed protection from the psychiatrists at BC and the state of MA. pnwmom Jul 2014 #430
The parents were carefully following the advice of top metabolic and GI specialists, pnwmom Jul 2014 #429
No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't let the Harvard name deprive us of all common sense. pnwmom Jul 2014 #433
^^^^THIS^^^^ A thousand times THIS. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jul 2014 #388
Previously, the one-sided nature of the story was problematic Orrex Jul 2014 #275
Have you read the multiple articles that have been published pnwmom Jul 2014 #281
A few questions, though I must defer to your greater familiarity: Orrex Jul 2014 #283
The Boston Globe did its own very thorough, balanced, investigation. pnwmom Jul 2014 #286
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #290
Welcome, FreeJustina. pnwmom Jul 2014 #291
Well done, pnwmom. K&R friendly_iconoclast Jul 2014 #294
Thanks! pnwmom Jul 2014 #295
FWIW, I'm also disgusted by some of the posts in response to the OP friendly_iconoclast Jul 2014 #296
The worst part, to me, pnwmom Jul 2014 #297
Here's a link I recently came across listing experts on the frontier of this emerging new science. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #298
It is a mistake that DCF made. There were two groups of physicians: pnwmom Jul 2014 #299
Harvard has people on both sides of this, as shown, so your Harvard-bashing is too indiscriminate. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #300
The Harvard metabolic specialists didn't speak up for 16 months. pnwmom Jul 2014 #304
Related to this post although not specifically to the thread. proverbialwisdom Jul 2014 #320
It's a hideous part of history: American kids used for government experiments. Octafish Jul 2014 #352
You're taking heat for this thread. Just want to thank you for LittleBlue Jul 2014 #391
Thanks, LittleBlue. Unfortunately, there are more Justina's out there. pnwmom Jul 2014 #397
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