Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: The Goal of Wholesale Surveillance [View all]scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)58. Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’
They Thought They Were Free
"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesnt make people close to their government to be told that this is a peoples government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.
"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
<snip>
"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice itplease try to believe meunless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, regretted, that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these little measures that no patriotic German could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respiceResist the beginnings and Consider the end. But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesnt make people close to their government to be told that this is a peoples government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.
"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
<snip>
"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice itplease try to believe meunless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, regretted, that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these little measures that no patriotic German could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respiceResist the beginnings and Consider the end. But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right." - Thomas Paine
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
95 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Welcome, surgence. I think Octafish was posting for the benefit of all DU readers. nt
Bernardo de La Paz
Jun 2014
#35
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants. Albert Camus
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jun 2014
#4
They are never 'gone'. They leave the public stage and continue their 'work' offstage.
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#24
Germany collected info on Jews too once upon a time. I know it's not an exact comparison but...
L0oniX
Jun 2014
#6
No. The illegal domestic surveillance continues under the current administration.
Octafish
Jun 2014
#19
I think it's a perfectly legitimate comparison. The East German Stasi also spied on the people.
sabrina 1
Jun 2014
#25
And today they have the ultimate tools, basically prying into everyone's mind. It's dangerous and
RKP5637
Jun 2014
#29
Sometimes I feel like we're moving right back into the McCarthy era. It's hard to tell
RKP5637
Jun 2014
#34
I think if it was announced that WalMart had been given a contract to inject all of us
djean111
Jun 2014
#51
Also, Bush did not claim the authority to execute American citizens without due process.
Maedhros
Jun 2014
#59
Combine the power of being able to cherrypick any situation, word, or phrase out of context...
Shandris
Jun 2014
#44
30,000 Drones, cameras @ every intersection & all along the freeways. And next, cameras/microphones
blkmusclmachine
Jun 2014
#65
Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’
scarletwoman
Jun 2014
#58
+1. Right back to the 1930s, perhaps. But this time, there are no good guys to come to the rescue.
blkmusclmachine
Jun 2014
#67
You'll be "disappeared," and the people that question your whereabouts will be threatened.
blkmusclmachine
Jun 2014
#62
The goal is actually to create a steady source of income for govt. surveillance contractors...
MrScorpio
Jun 2014
#72
They get to pick and choose who the gate keepers are and reward them accordingly
MrScorpio
Jun 2014
#79