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In reply to the discussion: Edward Snowden made a calm, compelling case for clemency last night. He's a patriot. [View all]merrily
(45,251 posts)105. No. The presumption of innocence means that the prosecution has to prove a case in the first place,
as opposed to a kangaroo court or a simple drone execution. Then Snowden and/or his attorney get to put on a defense. And then each side gets at least one more pass. Then a judge or jury decides what in all that mess is the truth.
However, in this case, I don't there's any secret or attempted secret about the fact that Snowden took papers he was not supposed to take and shared info he was not supposed to share.
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Edward Snowden made a calm, compelling case for clemency last night. He's a patriot. [View all]
chimpymustgo
May 2014
OP
Brian William, a TV guy, has more inside info than the guy who actually did the work for NSA?
merrily
May 2014
#54
my post went to a dfifferent point. But, you think he owes someone proof of something? Why?
merrily
May 2014
#113
Did he disturb your comfortable denial bubble? You think the NSA is using their unlimited budget
rhett o rick
May 2014
#169
You polled "every country on the planet"? The authoritarian leaders all hate Snowden.
rhett o rick
May 2014
#226
Now we are getting down to it. You dont like Snowden for a number of reasons.
rhett o rick
May 2014
#230
He doesn't present the evidence because he did not take it with him to Russia.
JDPriestly
May 2014
#174
Lol, the telecoms have admitted what they are doing for the Govt. Now that they have been exposed
sabrina 1
May 2014
#225
They have been 'exposed' since 2006 when we knew metadata storage was part of the NSA.
randome
May 2014
#229
Snowden really helped his case. The interview is changing minds too - for people willing to think.
chimpymustgo
May 2014
#4
You are so right. A whole bunch of people are going to look stupid - and traitorous.
chimpymustgo
May 2014
#55
They are just pulling crap from every orifice today. I'd like to see proof of "changing minds".
Tarheel_Dem
May 2014
#239
Thanks for that synopsis. I can't bear to watch him or GG, so I appreciate it. I think Bill Maher
Tarheel_Dem
May 2014
#243
I think you may have confused me with GG & Snowey, the Repub...er, I mean Libertarians.
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2014
#258
Well, no. I am basing my opinion on your words in this thread. So not mistaking you for anyone.
Squinch
Jun 2014
#259
"The interview is changing minds too - for people willing to think". Is this just a hunch, or is...
Tarheel_Dem
May 2014
#238
He would argue, and I would agree, that he acted to protect the Constitution.
JDPriestly
May 2014
#180
No, the jury pool has NOT been prejudiced. Most people didn't watch Snowden OR Kerry on TV.
MADem
May 2014
#241
If I was in deep trouble, realized that I didn't want to live in Russia any longer, but...
George II
May 2014
#120
As an American, I think that upholding the Constitution is more impotant than
JDPriestly
May 2014
#181
We know know that massive amounts of data have been collected and stored, that it can be accessed at
merrily
May 2014
#71
I have the capability to eavesdrop outside your door. Any evidence I am doing that?
randome
May 2014
#118
If you eavesdropped outside someone's door, that person would have the capacity to call the
JDPriestly
May 2014
#183
So, the difference between grade school-like posts and other kinds is geography, not content?
merrily
May 2014
#92
Could you please explain what remains of the Fourth Amendment once the NSA has the authority
JDPriestly
May 2014
#184
It always takes a bit of time before they get the email with the latest talking points...
backscatter712
May 2014
#48
So that's it then, You decide and we must agree? I didn't know I was in Freeperland...
themaguffin
May 2014
#142
No. The presumption of innocence means that the prosecution has to prove a case in the first place,
merrily
May 2014
#105
Of course he would be given a jury trial, if he wanted that. Why would you think he would not? nt
msanthrope
May 2014
#160
He could not get a fair trial. The jury pool has been prejudiced against him by the careless
JDPriestly
May 2014
#185
He - and Daniel Ellsberg - have explained that clearly. But I like his going to the court of public
chimpymustgo
May 2014
#58
Really? I don't think he's a hero for refusing to come back, but I understand why he doesn't.
merrily
May 2014
#81
He's been called a traitor by the highest officials of the US and can still be charged with treason.
merrily
May 2014
#189
But he and many Americans believe he did what he did to protect the Constitution.
JDPriestly
May 2014
#187
As at least one FISA court judge finally began to suggest, the courts are complicit.
merrily
May 2014
#196
Snowdens hypocrisy is not giving America a say on HIS actions via justice system but we should
uponit7771
May 2014
#126
It's in the interest of national security that our government make a deal with him.
JDPriestly
May 2014
#190
Sez someone who couldn't hold a candle to Kerry in the public arena and how he has positively
blm
May 2014
#35
Agreeing with Obama's take when you work for Obama does not equal being "spot on."
merrily
May 2014
#197
Sez someone who doesn't know much about the last 4 decades of this nation's REAL history.
blm
May 2014
#44
Well, it did take guts to snooker his co-workers into giving him their passwords
BeyondGeography
May 2014
#146
Even if you follow the law, whistleblowing is still a risky business (no movie pun intended)
merrily
May 2014
#201
The situation will not rectified by giving up on government, but by correction.
olegramps
May 2014
#247
I didn't see the interview and care little about Snowden. At this point he's a distraction ....
Scuba
May 2014
#27
How about a graphic with Snowden's other interpretation of those who steal and run?
randome
May 2014
#37
Bingo! The more anyone makes it about Snowden and/or Greenwald, the less they make it
merrily
May 2014
#195
super smart? an average intelligent person would have gone to a country for asylum first before
lostincalifornia
May 2014
#90
Russia might jump at the chance, but Snowden claims he had no documents to put into their hands.
ancianita
May 2014
#80
Why shouldn't we? Why should we trust Clapper and the NSA or Kerry or the White House?
ancianita
May 2014
#94
A patriot would not have given information to anyone which has been received by foreign countries.
Thinkingabout
May 2014
#60
He's not my hero, but I don't think you know whether the information that foreign countries got
merrily
May 2014
#62
No, it really isn't. Telling someone something they already know is a non-event, not a crime.
merrily
May 2014
#192
He handed the documents to two American citizens, not foreign countries. Get your facts straight.
ancianita
May 2014
#83
ummm, Chinese media = Chinese government... there's no one who beleives they're seperate
uponit7771
May 2014
#131
What? Snowden turned over docs to Americans. Do you have some 'in' with Chinese intel?
ancianita
May 2014
#144
On the facts, he gave information Merkel had conversations monitored, she is from Germany,
Thinkingabout
May 2014
#161
Merkel didn't know she was monitoring? And she didn't know the US knew about her monitoring?
merrily
May 2014
#194
Is China a part of the US? He provided information of our monitoring of China.
Thinkingabout
May 2014
#206
Who said China (or Germany) was part of the US? Also, do you have a link on China? Please see #193
merrily
May 2014
#207
If you found files on your work computer that showed your company was committing crimes
zeemike
May 2014
#76
He is no patriot, and he is an idiot also for not getting to a country where he wanted asylum first
lostincalifornia
May 2014
#84
He was SMART not to want his plane grounded by US intervention.Presidents of 5 S. American countries
ancianita
May 2014
#98
When did it become acceptable to attack the personal appearance of someone one disagrees with?
George II
May 2014
#88
No. In that scenario, Snowden would have picked up a gun and shot himself in the balls.
randome
May 2014
#117
Thanks for your candor. It was important for Americans to see and hear Snowden unfiltered.
chimpymustgo
May 2014
#141
He served the interests of humanity which includes Americans, as for the patriotism...
carolinayellowdog
May 2014
#168
Well, I'm glad you saw it. Hopefully, the audience in his new country was bigger.
Tarheel_Dem
May 2014
#178
Then what was this PR stunt for if not to change American minds? Isn't this to build support for...
Tarheel_Dem
May 2014
#233
I really think that Snowden does not have a "fan club" at all - there is just the ridiculous charge
djean111
May 2014
#235
I hatesss to pull a Godwin, but just blindly following what all one's other countrymen think can be
djean111
May 2014
#237
Please tell me you are not implying that the low ratings reflect badly on Snowden.
merrily
May 2014
#204
Sorry you're hurting, but it's not my pain you're feeling. I'm not in any pain.
merrily
May 2014
#246
The purpose of the government is to protect the 1% from the threat of democracy.
Zorra
Jun 2014
#260
Actually, polls have pretty consistently indicated that Americans distrust NSA spying
woo me with science
Jun 2014
#266