General Discussion

BlueMTexpat

(15,365 posts)

89. I loved the series.

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 02:01 PM

Dec 2011

Did the books need some editing? Yes. Had Larsson lived long enough to work with an editor, I think that there could have been a lot of improvement. I understand that there was generally hesitation to edit the books simply because he had died so suddenly and, with the friction between his long-time live-in lover and his semi-estranged family who inherited his estate because he died intestate, there was literally no one to work with.

The original title of the first book was "Men Who Hate Women" and that theme certainly carries through the series even though there are also some very enlightened male characters as well, so yes, I believe that Lisbeth is empowerment embodied. Her talents are also underestimated by the same men who "hate" women.

I also have all three of the films in Swedish (with English subtitles) and thought that for the most part, they did justice to the series. Obviously, there were situations from the books that were elided or ignored altogether in the films, but the gist was there.

For anyone who is interested, I recommend the following article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/oct/04/stieg-larsson-partner-eva-gabrielsson?INTCMP=SRCH

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Highlight:

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Empowering or exploitive to women? [View all] Burgman Dec 2011 OP

The books sucked. ScreamingMeemie Dec 2011 #1

it's translated from swedish, it reads awkward at times. dionysus Dec 2011 #4

I understand that it is translated from Swedish. The story was horrible and violent for no need... ScreamingMeemie Dec 2011 #11

to each their own. dionysus Dec 2011 #219

I was impressed at how good the translation was. Morning Dew Dec 2011 #24

Read the books, not sure if I want to see the movie. northoftheborder Dec 2011 #5

Saw the movies and they sucked horribly. Each worse than the last. kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #9

Some great books are turned into really horrible movies. Nye Bevan Dec 2011 #14

So you stole content? Burgman Dec 2011 #15

To be fair, I saw "Star Wars Episode 1- the Phantom Menace" which sucked horribly, Nye Bevan Dec 2011 #19

the argument stands in my opinion. Burgman Dec 2011 #23

Fantastic planet - one of the oldest, bestest, movies made. ChairmanAgnostic Dec 2011 #162

LOL Leslie Nielson bieng serious. Burgman Dec 2011 #163

True, that, but that movie kicked ass on special effects ChairmanAgnostic Dec 2011 #164

I could be all three. kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #22

curious. Why is this so offensive to you? Burgman Dec 2011 #25

I said it was shitty not offensive. It's just a crappy trio of films. kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #29

"If it doesn't cost me anything to watch, maybe I'll see it. Burgman Dec 2011 #33

Well it could cost me two hours and my self respect if it's as bad as the original kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #47

The English language version of "Let the Right One In" was a Xerox of the original film. DCKit Dec 2011 #54

You can have a shot for shot remake, and lose the tone, characterization & theme kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #93

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Dec 2011 #108

also the actors themselves Ghost of Tom Joad Dec 2011 #181

"Stole Content"? They're on Netflix. DCKit Dec 2011 #53

The Swedish Dragon Tattoo Films are available on Netflix blogslut Dec 2011 #94

Netflix is a paid for service. Burgman Dec 2011 #155

there's this thing called a.....library. that's where I 'stole' it Gabi Hayes Dec 2011 #171

But it meant well. kenny blankenship Dec 2011 #188

hard to take writing/filmmaking that purport to be Gabi Hayes Dec 2011 #226

I agree. Text provides some distance from violence eridani Dec 2011 #31

Wow... I read the 1st in Madrid (a 3 week vacation) alittlelark Dec 2011 #10

I am glad you enjoyed them. Me? Not so much. ScreamingMeemie Dec 2011 #17

I couldn't read them either, I finally got the first on on cd and listening is much better than Ghost of Tom Joad Dec 2011 #182

I thought the books were great, and am also a Packer fan. Weird, huh? Scuba Dec 2011 #58

LOL! Habibi Dec 2011 #78

I'm with you. Bad writing, yet adored by those who seldom read thrillers mainer Dec 2011 #60

Just my opinion: It needed more editing. yodermon Dec 2011 #75

I actually considered that useful eridani Dec 2011 #166

I'm half way through the second book and they have both been absolutely brilliant.. truebrit71 Dec 2011 #88

I have read all three and agree with you. I liked the strong female character. nm rhett o rick Dec 2011 #131

I agree. Couldn't get through it myself. bigwillq Dec 2011 #222

male fantasy and glorification of rape in the name of feminism. seabeyond Dec 2011 #2

i highly doubt you read the books. sorry. dionysus Dec 2011 #7

Don't you think that the original title was a bit more than a straight in your face title? Burgman Dec 2011 #8

I saw it as glorifying revenge on rapists n/t eridani Dec 2011 #34

That's exactly how I saw it. a la izquierda Dec 2011 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author femrap Dec 2011 #183

Only your narrow radical feminist view is allowed to speak in the name of feminism? Major Nikon Dec 2011 #38

Those books may have gotten off to a rocky start, Are_grits_groceries Dec 2011 #57

you will NEVER see a graphic, explicit, drawn out scene of male on male rape. never. seabeyond Dec 2011 #63

amen seabeyond JustAnotherGen Dec 2011 #64

major whatever has yet to be on womens side in all of his posts. i dont take him too seriously. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #74

Me either! JustAnotherGen Dec 2011 #79

It concerns me that hardly anyone else notices redqueen Dec 2011 #67

Sorry - you are wrong about this. cliffordu Dec 2011 #71

That's right, the movie "Pulp Fiction" doesn't exist. EOTE Dec 2011 #73

pulp fiction is the one out of all of them i have seen. and it is exactly how i describe. male on seabeyond Dec 2011 #77

So your issue is that male rape on film isn't graphic enough? EOTE Dec 2011 #81

you continue to reinforce the point i made. thanks.... seabeyond Dec 2011 #82

Ahhh, so a man being raped with a knife isn't graphic enough for you. Thanks for proving my point. EOTE Dec 2011 #83

+1 Well said. nt hifiguy Dec 2011 #92

post 105. i dont agree. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #106

who really cares how many of the movies you've seen? DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2011 #109

how we change the issue. i never said there are NO movies that have male on male rape. seabeyond Dec 2011 #110

Nope, you simply said they weren't graphic enough. A man being raped with a knife... EOTE Dec 2011 #113

again, i have not seen the movie. you have named off quite a few movies and i have check them out seabeyond Dec 2011 #115

The issue is that you said there will never be an extended, graphic portrayal of male rape on the EOTE Dec 2011 #117

While I think this post skirts with calling a member out, MedicalAdmin Dec 2011 #123

That wasn't the point she was trying to make. EOTE Dec 2011 #145

tell me where i am wrong. seabeyond Dec 2011 #172

If you can't see where you're wrong, you're utterly blind. EOTE Dec 2011 #200

i wasnt talking to you. i have absolutely no expectation of you... at all. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #201

And I have absolutely no expectation to see you tell the truth. EOTE Dec 2011 #204

and I quote: "you will NEVER see a graphic, explicit, drawn out scene of male on male rape. never." DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2011 #125

Spetters. Caligula. Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #148

Don't forget American History X Hugabear Dec 2011 #128

Deliverence? NeedleCast Dec 2011 #91

Not so graphic it wasn't shown on television in the early seventies. saras Dec 2011 #99

HEAVILY edited cliffordu Dec 2011 #107

with todays standard, no, not graphic, which is my point. top 10 horrifying moments seabeyond Dec 2011 #105

I love how your comment was twisted... redqueen Dec 2011 #112

Intellectual dishonesty? EOTE Dec 2011 #114

That's more a difference of opinion. redqueen Dec 2011 #116

Actual dishonesty is talking for certain about things which you know nothing about. EOTE Dec 2011 #118

i am saying i want to see more brutal rape of men? or less brutal rape of women? or.... seabeyond Dec 2011 #121

You said those portrayals of rape don't exist. EOTE Dec 2011 #144

I think you may be talking past each other. redqueen Dec 2011 #122

She said that there will NEVER be a graphic, extended male rape scene on film. EOTE Dec 2011 #146

Oh come on. redqueen Dec 2011 #147

Then what did she mean by it? EOTE Dec 2011 #154

And regarding the meat of the issue. EOTE Dec 2011 #156

If by 'lurid detail' you mean sexualized, then yes. redqueen Dec 2011 #168

I have never seen a rape on film that I considered to be sexualized, male or female. EOTE Dec 2011 #199

Well that's why you and I redqueen Dec 2011 #202

It doesn't help that when trying to counter an argument, I'm told that I can't take it seriously. EOTE Dec 2011 #205

? redqueen Dec 2011 #206

Just a few posts ago: EOTE Dec 2011 #207

She is talking about sexualization on film. redqueen Dec 2011 #208

She said graphic and extended. And that is without a doubt untrue. EOTE Dec 2011 #209

having seen none of these movies except pulp seabeyond Dec 2011 #120

Deliverance came pretty close n/t DFW Dec 2011 #124

I have one word for you.... daleanime Dec 2011 #135

The rape scene in the Swedish film version was no more graphic than Deliverance tclambert Dec 2011 #137

"Fun" aside, redqueen Dec 2011 #139

not much of a burroughs fan, I'd guess. that said, Gabi Hayes Dec 2011 #173

Well, this response started a lot of pointless dithering over hyperbole. boppers Dec 2011 #193

please point out where i said there was not male on male rape in film. seabeyond Dec 2011 #197

Regarding the duration of the scenes... redqueen Dec 2011 #203

Just saw the original GWtDT movie. boppers Dec 2011 #224

I don't know if it 'glorified' rape per se JustAnotherGen Dec 2011 #65

( Spoiler below ) I don't know how anyone can think of that book redqueen Dec 2011 #68

Oh, and women who enacts violent revenge... apparently that's somehow feminist. seabeyond Dec 2011 #72

Yeah, sexualized violence isn't my thing, redqueen Dec 2011 #80

I think that spoiler part was just another sign of the main character's overall confusion... truebrit71 Dec 2011 #149

A Feminist is one who shaves her pits and calls men pigs? Moonwalk Dec 2011 #170

If a woman helped her "achieve pride and restoration", would that be different in your eyes? boppers Dec 2011 #190

The "stereotype" i was referring to was the Andrew Dworkin "all sex is rape" type of radical... truebrit71 Dec 2011 #214

I don't see how it glorifies rape Dorian Gray Dec 2011 #70

It doesn't, in any way, shape or form... truebrit71 Dec 2011 #150

except in my original statement i did not focus just on the rape seabeyond Dec 2011 #153

I wasn't referring to you specifically, but rather others that jumped on your bandwagon... truebrit71 Dec 2011 #159

Fair enough. seabeyond Dec 2011 #161

"feminist heroin"..... Interesting typo. boppers Dec 2011 #191

Have you read the books? polly7 Dec 2011 #189

That is absolute bollocks.. truebrit71 Dec 2011 #90

they did not change the title here from "Män som hatar kvinnor", and the books were a splash hit for stockholmer Dec 2011 #160

Based upon what Lisbeth does to her rapist, I would say empowering (nt) Nye Bevan Dec 2011 #3

Yep. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #6

+1000 alittlelark Dec 2011 #13

You are back!! How is your son??!! riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #40

It appears to be a non-ossifying fibroma, but we need to alittlelark Dec 2011 #43

Is that serious? riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #44

We don't really know how serious it is. alittlelark Dec 2011 #46

I can't find the smilies link yet on DU3 riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #48

Neither can I ! alittlelark Dec 2011 #51

Farrah Fawcett in "Extremities" comes to mind n/t Mira Dec 2011 #76

empowering for sure trumad Dec 2011 #12

Her type of female archetype is lacking in fiction - for that alone its empowering. firehorse Dec 2011 #16

Said better than I could have. Burgman Dec 2011 #18

She's also a bisexual Aspie eridani Dec 2011 #35

I admired Lizbeth very much. Whisp Dec 2011 #41

Do you read much thriller fiction? mainer Dec 2011 #61

La Femme Nikita, Anyone? NashVegas Dec 2011 #151

Precisely. Anyone who says characters like Lisbeth are "unique" isn't reading much these days. mainer Dec 2011 #169

really....familiar with any of these: Gabi Hayes Dec 2011 #177

Da Vinci Code made me twitch. A lot. Not in good ways. boppers Dec 2011 #192

Originally I typed La Femme Nakita and ... tank girl and cat woman. But I erased them, because they firehorse Dec 2011 #213

Nikita (My misspelling) NashVegas Dec 2011 #223

I read the books and saw the swedish films.... the swedish casting was refreshing. firehorse Dec 2011 #225

I read a lot of fiction but the female characters often lack complexity and development in the arch firehorse Dec 2011 #218

"it can be very validating, healing, to those who have been victimized" redqueen Dec 2011 #101

I've only heard positive comments about the books, though I haven't read them myself. n/t tammywammy Dec 2011 #20

The first book made me very uncomfortable XemaSab Dec 2011 #21

I can certainly see that. Burgman Dec 2011 #27

I liked the portrayal of Erica Berger eridani Dec 2011 #36

I liked that he managed to stay friends with former lovers eridani Dec 2011 #39

I heard it will be graphically gory? SecurityManager Dec 2011 #26

I saw the original movie. I thought it was gross. Depravity is gross, not entertaining. nt valerief Dec 2011 #28

I enjoyed the books and the three Swedish movies. I'll probably... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #30

People can complain about whatever they like. redqueen Dec 2011 #102

True. And I can call silly whatever I like. I can also note that often... TreasonousBastard Dec 2011 #184

While I may disagree with it, WHAT A GREAT REVIEW to read! Burgman Dec 2011 #185

+1 boppers Dec 2011 #194

She's clearly an Aspie, I thought it was empowering for THAT riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #32

for the most part i like the book, but i think having sexual violence to prove how strong a female La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #37

I think that including sexual violence, especially for women ensnared in social services riderinthestorm Dec 2011 #45

I didn't think it was exploitive. mentalsolstice Dec 2011 #42

I loved the trilogy, but haven't seen the film. If it follows the tone of the books, it won't Liquorice Dec 2011 #49

I feel asleep during the 1st movie. aletier_v Dec 2011 #50

Both, at the same time, because all women are not the same. saras Dec 2011 #52

If you are bothered by the graphic nature of the rape scenes, Are_grits_groceries Dec 2011 #55

I liked the way Lisbeth was portrayed in Dragon Tattoo LadyHawkAZ Dec 2011 #56

Torture porn. n/t retread Dec 2011 #59

I liked the first movie, but the 3rd was boring. Bucky Dec 2011 #62

Not a holiday movie, nor does 9-11 put me in the holiday mood Johonny Dec 2011 #66

The books were overrated Dorian Gray Dec 2011 #69

saw the swedish version. saw the trailer at the movies: Gabi Hayes Dec 2011 #178

The book was good storytelling Taverner Dec 2011 #84

I like the books and the movies marlakay Dec 2011 #85

exploitative mimitabby Dec 2011 #86

I thought Lisbeth was always the smartest and toughest person in the room Whisp Dec 2011 #95

My personal heroine pscot Dec 2011 #100

I can't think of a comparable American heroine like she is. Whisp Dec 2011 #103

You might like Carole O'Connell's series featuring Kathy Mallory emulatorloo Dec 2011 #111

Thanks, wrote that down. nt Whisp Dec 2011 #127

Try a few of these authors for strong heroines: mainer Dec 2011 #126

I thank you too. Whisp Dec 2011 #129

best recent kick-ass female in american film mainer Dec 2011 #136

oh, just recalled Eon Flux with Charlize Theron. Whisp Dec 2011 #198

Have read Paretsky and Barr, they are great emulatorloo Dec 2011 #134

There are plenty of books out there that are not dark Marrah_G Dec 2011 #217

I liked all three books a lot Time for change Dec 2011 #87

I loved the series. BlueMTexpat Dec 2011 #89

Agree with these thoughts on the books - TBF Dec 2011 #119

Exploitive. randome Dec 2011 #96

'action babes?' Whisp Dec 2011 #104

I liked all three movies, and all three books. Hulk Dec 2011 #97

And yet your username is 'Hulk'. randome Dec 2011 #98

You wouldn't like him when he's angry. boppers Dec 2011 #195

Well said. nm rhett o rick Dec 2011 #133

Easiest conclusion for us to make when confronted by opinions different than our own LanternWaste Dec 2011 #141

Setting people on fire might be offensive to others. tclambert Dec 2011 #130

I have read the books and seen the Swedish movies and loved them all. rhett o rick Dec 2011 #132

Saw the trilogy, did not read the books ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2011 #138

It's not the portrayal itself, redqueen Dec 2011 #140

Neither. Sometimes a movie is just a movie. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #142

I saw part of the original film, I thought it was thinly disguised porn and walked out. ThomWV Dec 2011 #143

Interesting. Burgman Dec 2011 #152

I loved the books and the Swedish films. a la izquierda Dec 2011 #158

It's a work of fiction. sendero Dec 2011 #165

I would tend to disagree. Burgman Dec 2011 #167

The book was fascinating and moved quickly. indivisibleman Dec 2011 #174

Saw it last night. It's really good. DevonRex Dec 2011 #211

I did too.. it was bloody brilliant... truebrit71 Dec 2011 #212

Neither - it's just a really fun read Politicub Dec 2011 #175

More about Stieg Larsson canoeist52 Dec 2011 #176

The Question is Problematic--There are Three Aspects to Consider... Moonwalk Dec 2011 #179

nit: per say? ITYM per se. boppers Dec 2011 #196

Good read varelse Dec 2011 #180

good movies Vattel Dec 2011 #186

i thought the swedish version of the movie was excellent madrchsod Dec 2011 #187

Empowering. DevonRex Dec 2011 #210

I think good movies often show the dark side of humanity. n/t Marrah_G Dec 2011 #215

One other thing- I am trying hard to not be offended Marrah_G Dec 2011 #216

i was wondering that myself... and don't have an answer. teh "gay sex" in the books wasn't offensive dionysus Dec 2011 #221

the books were riveting, and lisbeth is a bad-fucking-ass. swedish movies were ok (saw the first 2) dionysus Dec 2011 #220