HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Journalist Tom Ricks 'Beg... » Reply #11

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Mon Mar 17, 2014, 01:13 PM

11. Snowden and Greenwald are negative nationalists with the US as their envisioned antagonist.

 

They aren't principled and have no real values in their politics.


http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html

... By "nationalism" I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled "good" or "bad." But secondly -- and this is much more important -- I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests.

... It is also worth emphasizing once again that nationalist feeling can be purely negative. There are, for example, Trotskyists who have become simply enemies of the USSR without developing a corresponding loyalty to any other unit. When one grasps the implications of this, the nature of what I mean by nationalism becomes a good deal clearer. A nationalist is one who thinks solely, or mainly, in terms of competitive prestige. He may be a positive or a negative nationalist -- that is, he may use his mental energy either in boosting or in denigrating -- but at any rate his thoughts always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. He sees history, especially contemporary history, as the endless rise and decline of great power units, and every event that happens seems to him a demonstration that his own side is on the upgrade and some hated rival is on the downgrade. But finally, it is important not to confuse nationalism with mere worship of success. The nationalist does not go on the principle of simply ganging up with the strongest side. On the contrary, having picked his side, he persuades himself that it is the strongest, and is able to stick to his belief even when the facts are overwhelmingly against him. Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception. Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty, but he is also -- since he is conscious of serving something bigger than himself -- unshakeably certain of being in the right.

... (examples of) NEGATIVE NATIONALISM

1. ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the intelligentsia, which persisted long after it had become clear that the Axis powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Alamein, or the number of German planes shot down in the Battle of Britain. English left-wing intellectuals did not, of course, actually want the Germans or Japanese to win the war, but many of them could not help getting a certain kick out of seeing their own country humiliated, and wanted to feel that the final victory would be due to Russia, or perhaps America, and not to Britain. In foreign politics many intellectuals follow the principle that any faction backed by Britain must be in the wrong. As a result, "enlightened" opinion is quite largely a mirror-image of Conservative policy. Anglophobia is always liable to reversal, hence that fairly common spectacle, the pacifist of one war who is a bellicist in the next.
.
.
.

more at above link

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 101 replies Author Time Post
ProSense Mar 2014 OP
MADem Mar 2014 #1
FSogol Mar 2014 #2
Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #3
ProSense Mar 2014 #4
Fawke Em Mar 2014 #6
blm Mar 2014 #14
randome Mar 2014 #15
Fawke Em Mar 2014 #97
frazzled Mar 2014 #30
ProSense Mar 2014 #38
Maedhros Mar 2014 #45
ProSense Mar 2014 #52
frazzled Mar 2014 #56
Maedhros Mar 2014 #59
frazzled Mar 2014 #63
Maedhros Mar 2014 #65
Mojorabbit Mar 2014 #86
Maedhros Mar 2014 #88
treestar Mar 2014 #89
VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #101
ProSense Mar 2014 #46
ProSense Mar 2014 #36
DevineBovine Mar 2014 #50
bvar22 Mar 2014 #58
DevineBovine Mar 2014 #93
bvar22 Mar 2014 #95
Number23 Mar 2014 #54
Cha Mar 2014 #71
Rex Mar 2014 #57
Cha Mar 2014 #70
functioning_cog Mar 2014 #81
TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #5
Fawke Em Mar 2014 #7
6000eliot Mar 2014 #8
Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2014 #10
TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #12
Fawke Em Mar 2014 #98
JI7 Mar 2014 #16
Fawke Em Mar 2014 #99
tarheelsunc Mar 2014 #9
fbc Mar 2014 #35
okaawhatever Mar 2014 #43
LineReply Snowden and Greenwald are negative nationalists with the US as their envisioned antagonist.
stevenleser Mar 2014 #11
ucrdem Mar 2014 #41
librechik Mar 2014 #13
jeff47 Mar 2014 #27
Maedhros Mar 2014 #48
Control-Z Mar 2014 #83
treestar Mar 2014 #17
PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #18
msanthrope Mar 2014 #20
Hissyspit Mar 2014 #21
stevenleser Mar 2014 #24
Hissyspit Mar 2014 #25
stevenleser Mar 2014 #26
treestar Mar 2014 #47
Cha Mar 2014 #79
Cha Mar 2014 #82
Whisp Mar 2014 #44
Union Scribe Mar 2014 #85
Cha Mar 2014 #72
WillyT Mar 2014 #19
johnnyreb Mar 2014 #69
bananas Mar 2014 #77
Hissyspit Mar 2014 #22
Whisp Mar 2014 #23
Cha Mar 2014 #73
LanternWaste Mar 2014 #28
MNBrewer Mar 2014 #29
SidDithers Mar 2014 #31
ucrdem Mar 2014 #32
TheSarcastinator Mar 2014 #37
ucrdem Mar 2014 #39
Cha Mar 2014 #74
Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #53
cantbeserious Mar 2014 #33
OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #78
Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #87
frylock Mar 2014 #34
ProSense Mar 2014 #40
A Simple Game Mar 2014 #60
ProSense Mar 2014 #61
A Simple Game Mar 2014 #62
Whisp Mar 2014 #42
Maedhros Mar 2014 #49
ProSense Mar 2014 #51
Cha Mar 2014 #67
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #55
Cha Mar 2014 #68
Cha Mar 2014 #64
Bonobo Mar 2014 #66
Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #75
arcane1 Mar 2014 #76
functioning_cog Mar 2014 #80
Cha Mar 2014 #84
Octafish Mar 2014 #90
DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2014 #92
Octafish Mar 2014 #94
ProSense Mar 2014 #96
ProSense Mar 2014 #91
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #100
Please login to view edit histories.