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struggle4progress

(118,235 posts)

56. That stand will leave you entirely without any firm ground under your feet,

Sat Mar 8, 2014, 05:58 PM

Mar 2014

as it relegates all responsibility for oversight of Executive agencies to the Executive itself

Our system makes Congress one of the branches of the government and mostly leaves to politics the task of sorting out the inevitable power struggles, including questions of whether or not the Executive adequately informs Congress about operations

If Congress considers itself inadequately informed, or misinformed, or misled, it is the task of Congress to formulate appropriate response

And if you find Congressional inaction not to your taste, then it seems to me that it is for you to try to instigate and organize pressure on Congress to act

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Torture Whistleblower: I got 30 months in prison. Why does Leon Panetta get a pass? [View all] cali Mar 2014 OP

Except Kiriakou lied about waterboarding. It was a limited hangout at best CJCRANE Mar 2014 #1

I'm having a hard time finding where Kirikou lied cited in that Wikipedia entry dballance Mar 2014 #4

His motivation was to defend the practice. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #5

Leon Panetta went from the CIA to the DoD, which conveniently gave his staff TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #2

This is ProSense Mar 2014 #3

Lying to Congress is a crime hootinholler Mar 2014 #6

Tell that to Darryl Issa CJCRANE Mar 2014 #7

If the Senate feels it would be appropriate, the Senate has options for action against Clapper struggle4progress Mar 2014 #9

So does Obama. n/t xocet Mar 2014 #12

Exactly. deurbano Mar 2014 #18

The Senate lies in a different branch of government from the Executive, and so struggle4progress Mar 2014 #21

that is absurd dsc Mar 2014 #25

Do we possess (say) any official act of the Senate indicating that the Senate is outraged somehow? struggle4progress Mar 2014 #28

This isn't some Talmudic matter of interpretation dsc Mar 2014 #31

The Senate's outrage is to be gauged by the actual outrage expressed by the Senate itself: struggle4progress Mar 2014 #33

I don't care if the Senate is outraged or it isn't dsc Mar 2014 #37

Don't feed the trolls pscot Mar 2014 #53

That stand will leave you entirely without any firm ground under your feet, struggle4progress Mar 2014 #56

I am not arguing the inverse dsc Mar 2014 #63

I wonder what your opinion of this is dsc Mar 2014 #82

It's standard Washington baseball: something important is happening at third base, struggle4progress Mar 2014 #88

Just how can oversight occur dsc Mar 2014 #92

How do you know that? MADem Mar 2014 #101

sure he didn't dsc Mar 2014 #114

You wouldn't know--neither would I--if he wrote a classified letter to the committee. MADem Mar 2014 #121

It seems to be your view, that a hundred Senators together with their staffs cannot parse Clapper, struggle4progress Mar 2014 #115

I love the "Every Little Sparrow" pile-ons when it comes to Obama.... MADem Mar 2014 #100

I would like a quote of me doing any of the above dsc Mar 2014 #117

This is another example of Washington baseball, and once again you've been distracted struggle4progress Mar 2014 #129

Presidents can't fire people? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #122

When the subject under discsussion is some questionable act Marr Mar 2014 #123

Very well put. Wouldn't it be easier to face facts? I couldn't do the contortions it takes to try sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #125

Why? To satisfy Senators Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham? Or to satisfy Republican Representatives struggle4progress Mar 2014 #127

How about because it's the right thing to do? Do you refrain from doing what is right just to stick sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #128

Translation: you consider yourself the final arbiter of what's right struggle4progress Mar 2014 #132

Lying to Congress ISN"T wrong? No my idea regarding firing liars, and prosecuting war criminals who sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #133

Who in Congress says Clapper lied? In the Senate, I find Rand Paul; in the House, I find struggle4progress Mar 2014 #134

There's no statute of limitations on lying to Congress that I know of. And Ron Wyden is sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #136

Ron Wyden has never to my knowledge described Clapper's testimony as a lie struggle4progress Mar 2014 #137

Nope. It is the responsibility of Congress to hold people accountable--or not--for contempt. MADem Mar 2014 #65

So when Nixon's henchmen lied to Congress dsc Mar 2014 #81

It is the responsibility of Congress to impose consequences for that. MADem Mar 2014 #84

One of the reasons they forced him to dsc Mar 2014 #85

Well, if that is what you want to believe, you go right ahead. MADem Mar 2014 #86

the whole point of Watergate was the misdeeds of his staff at his behest dsc Mar 2014 #118

Here are the actual articles of impeachment struggle4progress Mar 2014 #131

"Clapper should have said he can't answer in an unclassified forum, but he chose to lie." ProSense Mar 2014 #13

No it wouldn't have been a lie dsc Mar 2014 #26

Eh...not really. Lying is not itself a crime, unless the elements of perjury are met. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #16

Kiriakou pled guilty to violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act struggle4progress Mar 2014 #8

Same reason PFC Manning rots in prison instead of war criminals Bush and Cheney. Octafish Mar 2014 #10

Is that really what you are asserting? Manning is the same as a torture defender? See #8 nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #14

No. I'm asserting a government that lets Bush and Cheney go is corrupt. Octafish Mar 2014 #36

Indeed! There is no law for them and plenty of law for the 99%. Justice? pffft L0oniX Mar 2014 #57

You said the treatment of this torture defender is the same as Manning. So you are comparing the two stevenleser Mar 2014 #59

comey is a torture defender questionseverything Mar 2014 #77

Wow, you must have had a hard time spinning that one! Rex Mar 2014 #44

Obviously not since several other folks got the same impression stevenleser Mar 2014 #58

Um...John Kiriakou thought waterboarding was a good thing. I'm betting Chelsea Manning msanthrope Mar 2014 #17

Really nice smear, msanthrope. Octafish Mar 2014 #34

You are the one who brought up Manning. Not me. Frankly, I'm puzzled why you msanthrope Mar 2014 #38

Kiriakou exposed the waterboarding. Octafish Mar 2014 #48

Yes, he was a proponent of waterboarding. If you didn't know that, that is on you, but you have the stevenleser Mar 2014 #62

YES!!! HE WAS TOTALLY OKAY WITH IT!!! He lied to the American people about the msanthrope Mar 2014 #94

The truth was going to come out. Kiriakou served to blunt the impact of the real revelations CJCRANE Mar 2014 #39

They never give up do they? Rex Mar 2014 #40

There is a difference between "whistleblowing" and a "limited hangout". CJCRANE Mar 2014 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Mar 2014 #49

''Everyone is corrupt, I’ve come to learn,'' John Kiriakou said. Octafish Mar 2014 #74

Who got "charged" or "investigated" for outing Agent Valerie Plame? bvar22 Mar 2014 #11

How gauche! All good Americans know that it is impolite to look and/or lean backward. xocet Mar 2014 #19

My momma always told me that my bad manners was why we couldn't have nice things. bvar22 Mar 2014 #22

Thanks for the Seinfeld video clip. xocet Mar 2014 #24

I love puns, but sadly, bvar22 Mar 2014 #29

YEP. Rex Mar 2014 #42

Brewster Jennings & Assoc. FOUGHT NUCLEAR WEAPONS THEFT. Octafish Mar 2014 #47

Hmmm I think it was Scooter Libby ...who was almost immediatly pardoned by... L0oniX Mar 2014 #60

The original leaker was Richard Armitage, from the State department, and technically, hughee99 Mar 2014 #120

That Armitage "confession" was just muddying the water as part of the cover-up struggle4progress Mar 2014 #135

And, the perpetrators of the actual waterboarding got a pass. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #15

what he said. librechik Mar 2014 #20

It's OK when our team does it because GO TEAM! nt JJChambers Mar 2014 #23

Waterboarding is never okay--this was the man who said it was--it was effective. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #43

Oh stop it will ya? There are Acts that protect whistleblowers. L0oniX Mar 2014 #27

I think Kiriakou was a neocon shill rather than a whistleblower. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #30

Yes, he was claiming that waterboarding works. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #32

Exactly. He claimed that they only waterboarded Abu Zubaydah for 30 seconds CJCRANE Mar 2014 #35

There are acts that protect whistleblowers. You seem rather upset and have resorted to personal msanthrope Mar 2014 #41

"personal attacks" Really? Ok ...now it's all about you? Whatever. L0oniX Mar 2014 #54

Indeed--in the other thread, it was quite clear who you were referencing with this post-- msanthrope Mar 2014 #67

"Look, I get that you are upset with your mother" <--- is that wimpy personal insult all you got? L0oniX Mar 2014 #73

I don't personally insult DUers--particularly those who are exhibiting as much pain and distress as msanthrope Mar 2014 #89

"I'm merely asking you to work out your family issues" LMAO L0oniX Mar 2014 #90

My DU betters? Look, it's pretty obvious you are upset with me. And, that you msanthrope Mar 2014 #91

"you have conflated with problems with your mother" LMAO ...imagination is all you got. L0oniX Mar 2014 #93

Why not put me on ignore, since I stress you out so much? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #95

Oh boy ...seen this before ...the ol begging to be put on ignore blather. L0oniX Mar 2014 #96

Oh..I'm not begging you to, merely suggesting it for your sake. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #98

"for your sake" Your concern is touching. L0oniX Mar 2014 #99

K&R for pissing off all the RIGHT people! Rex Mar 2014 #45

There are two issues here: CJCRANE Mar 2014 #50

And once again, you assert argumentum ad hominem as a valid practice. Noted again. nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #61

Says all we need to know truebluegreen Mar 2014 #51

so you really meant to put "white" and "house" underthematrix Mar 2014 #52

? I was quoting. truebluegreen Mar 2014 #55

K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2014 #64

thats because we have a criminal justice system rafeh1 Mar 2014 #66

Good one. nm rhett o rick Mar 2014 #69

It amazes me that we have posters here that consistently disparage whistle-blowers rhett o rick Mar 2014 #68

Kiriakou shilled for the neocons. He was a torture apologist. I know which side I'm on. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #70

I respect your dislike of Kiriakou but that should be beside the point. The point as I see it is rhett o rick Mar 2014 #71

Yes, he was treated badly but he was a propagandist not a whistleblower. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #79

NOT a Propagandist for BUSH! KoKo Mar 2014 #103

How ’07 ABC Interview Tilted a Torture Debate struggle4progress Mar 2014 #109

Working with Senator Kerry was "Shilling for Neocons?" KoKo Mar 2014 #104

In his initial TV interview he sold the effectiveness of waterboarding. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #106

i think this is because obama is in charge, if the same thing happened under bush La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #72

How true. n/t xocet Mar 2014 #75

I agree, but how sad. nm rhett o rick Mar 2014 #76

Kiriakou was a propagandist for Bush. People are re-writing history to make a point. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #80

Kiriakou was No Propagandist for Bush..Here's the Scoop on him--LINK: KoKo Mar 2014 #102

Thanks for the link. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #105

He changed ProSense Mar 2014 #107

Reporter Says He First Learned of C.I.A. Operative From Rove ProSense Mar 2014 #87

It doesn't amaze me at all. sibelian Mar 2014 #78

Imprisoning the truth tellers and protecting the criminals. woo me with science Mar 2014 #83

yes, the Feds get mad at employees who "whistle-blow" over their heads or by-pass official channels Sunlei Mar 2014 #97

Oh Cali, Cali Woman! Why you be rocking de boat? Catherina Mar 2014 #108

He was pally with the corporate media. He did friendly interviews extolling the virtues of torture. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #110

I wasn't clear, I was talking about how the corporate media treated him after Catherina Mar 2014 #111

Thanks for the link. His story is more nuanced than I realized. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #113

If only we had an honest media. Thanks CJCRANE n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #116

All the alleged "nuance" is there from the very beginning. Review the actual Brian Ross interviews struggle4progress Mar 2014 #130

*Still* being slimed. woo me with science Mar 2014 #112

K&R woo me with science Mar 2014 #119

k & r! n/t wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #124

Hypocrisy and the results of cognitive dissonance are the norm ...nt MindMover Mar 2014 #126

kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #138