General Discussion

Catherina

(35,568 posts)

187. Please fit Verhofstadt in!

Thu Mar 6, 2014, 05:38 PM

Mar 2014

I noticed while watching DeutcheWelle, that they're very conflicted on this. On one hand they're repulsed by the neonazis and don't want to give Ukraine a dime but on the other, they want Putin out but not if he's going to cut off their gas. Their performance is totally schizophrenic.

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A Chronology of the Ukrainian Coup [View all] Catherina Mar 2014 OP

Thank you for the Russian government's perspective on this. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #1

Corruption? Can you detail for us WHO has been involved in the corruption of most of the EU sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #72

Huge K&R. Thank you Catherina. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #2

You're welcome Polly. Had to post something factual to counter the MSM's fairytales. Catherina Mar 2014 #6

A great many DUers don't depend on the MSM to inform their perspective cheapdate Mar 2014 #87

+1000. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #243

"Given the Russian Parliament’s approval of Putin’s request for military troops to be moved... ProSense Mar 2014 #3

There are two sides to every story. LisaL Mar 2014 #4

Does this ProSense Mar 2014 #8

Cookies AND cakes??? MNBrewer Mar 2014 #5

hahha JI7 Mar 2014 #7

You should add a caveat that you're no fan of Yanukowitsch and don't love Putin. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #9

writing 20 paragraphs of pro-Kremlin and pro-Yankusovych propaganda geek tragedy Mar 2014 #10

What would you prefer? Pure, 100% U.S. propaganda? We already have that. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #13

Oh, how about some reality-based discussion instead of this tribal geek tragedy Mar 2014 #18

If you're neither, then go ahead. Introduce your view. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #19

Considering that every member state of the EU, Japan, and Canada agree with the US geek tragedy Mar 2014 #22

1) It's their country, not ours, 2) plotting regime change is getting old and tiring Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #26

1) Ukraine is not Russia's country; 2) there is nothing to substantiate geek tragedy Mar 2014 #33

But causing REGIME CHANGE in countries around to manipulate them or others, is SICK Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #36

again, the extraordinary claim that the US caused a mass uprising in Ukraine geek tragedy Mar 2014 #39

Oh BS. I'm Latin. Latin America has been the target of U.S. regime changes for, oh forever Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #41

that is not evidence. that is just ranting nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #42

Let's drop this, ok? You're a lover of regime-change, so this convo is over. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #44

false. I favor the right of people to rise up against oppression. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #45

No. You favor manufactured dissent to overthrow democratically elected govts. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #46

You don't get to tell me what I believe. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #55

You can "believe" whatever you want - TBF Mar 2014 #62

That cop got fired, his commander suspended, the geek tragedy Mar 2014 #67

Oh, well that makes it ok then. TBF Mar 2014 #69

No, obviously not. nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #84

You're denying that the U.S. has its claws all over this regime change. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #119

Wrong. You favor U.S. involvement everywhere. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 Mar 2014 #106

Yup, same sh*t, different day. Thank you for posting that wonderful article! nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #107

You're very welcome. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #109

polly7, thanks for pointing out this article Agony Mar 2014 #226

Oh yeah, and the U.S. is not responsible for regime changes and coups in endless countries Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #112

Two points and then this discussion is over. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #121

"the fact that in some cases the US has sponsored and plotted coups..." Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #124

+1 840high Mar 2014 #81

it's your position that Russia didn't interfere? Adrahil Mar 2014 #48

It's my position that it's pure U.S. propaganda that the insurrection was wanted by Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #57

I didn't find a single source that said the "whole country." Adrahil Mar 2014 #60

What I deny is that the U.S. was not involved in hiring and promoting this thing Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #116

That fact that you even mention EU as if they have any credibility, well that says it all. 2banon Mar 2014 #89

? nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #92

I think I asked you this before, but in case I didn't. Who are the 'putinistas'? The reason I'm sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #167

Anyone remotely critical of an Obama Administration Aerows Mar 2014 #193

We used to have pure 100% USA propaganda as long as I remember, Cleita Mar 2014 #102

You're right. I stand corrected! :) nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #105

Feel free to add any substantial information or to refute any assertion that I made. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #15

Well, you advocated she state she's not a fan or loyalist or supporter geek tragedy Mar 2014 #20

Bulverisms are the weakest of all ad-hominem arguments. nt Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #27

Very true what you wrote. Germany needs the cheap labor badly Catherina Mar 2014 #17

As I said in another thread... Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #23

The Orange Revolution we tried failed badly Catherina Mar 2014 #40

Bullshit. You don't feel sorry for the people of Ukraine. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #122

Interesting.. 2banon Mar 2014 #88

I agree regarding the other countries involved, the EU NATO countries, but it seems from the sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #172

Thank you. You're right. The entire nation was not out on the streets... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #11

The US can't even explain what all those neocons are doing in its state department Catherina Mar 2014 #24

Bush jr had them in there.. didn't realize all these players were still in the game 2banon Mar 2014 #94

Clinton (Hillary) brought Nuland in as spokesperson and then Obama brought her in as Asst Sec State Catherina Mar 2014 #146

This is a most odious revelation, but explains a great deal. 2banon Mar 2014 #153

Odious and depressing. The excuse these are Bush hangovers holds no water Catherina Mar 2014 #157

Re: Bush Hangovers.. 2banon Mar 2014 #174

Bush Sr under Reagan... and it's like he, and his cronies, never left Catherina Mar 2014 #186

top to bottom "house cleaning" and a complete paradigm shift 2banon Mar 2014 #199

Yes of course- "and a complete paradigm shift" Catherina Mar 2014 #210

Thanks... 2banon Mar 2014 #224

I hadn't so thanks for pointing it out. Rec'd to the max! Tom's analysis is spot on Catherina Mar 2014 #232

It's called American corruption. At the very best of circumstances... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #114

+1 for your insightful comment n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #156

it's weird you take the Russian version in large scoops and reflexively say US is bullshit Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #74

Here's what I no longer do... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #113

A certain group? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #115

Yup, like Venezuela. As I said, "same sh*t, different day" - just more of U.S. activity Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #117

You are a total and complete fool if you believe.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #120

Oh wow. The U.S. is a blameless, innocent nation... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #126

I never said that. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #136

According to you. The same is said after every U.S.-financed coup, until the docs come out nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #148

Is it not true there were thousands of Ukrainian protesters on the street? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #151

Here you go - enjoy... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #155

Wow. I hadn't read that. Thank you, Sarah. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #162

You're welcome! nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #166

Paul Craig Roberts. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #176

You are having the same reaction of supporters before the documentation is pouring out by the Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #177

You've gone totally delusional. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #178

Not at all. You think that a double standard is perfectly fine when it comes to the U.S. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #179

What the hell does a double standard for the US have to do with anything???? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #181

As do I, and that's now what you're supporting. You're supporting the U.S. MSM view. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #182

No. I'm supporting my family members view, who've told me firsthand what's going on. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #184

Fine, you'll ignore history and ignore any other facts, so let's agree to disagree. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #185

But you can't just say, "Well we did it in Chile and Iran, so we did it in Ukraine." Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #188

Ok, but I can say that there are things in this that sound like other regime changes Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #189

So what other US sponsored revolution involved thousands of protesters being paid off? nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #190

Oh come on now. Now you'd like me to explain the tactics of manufacturing dissent? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #194

And name one of those where the US put on its payroll thousands and thousands of protesters.. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #200

Exactly as in all the cases in which the U.S. created regime change, the names are not known until Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #202

So you can't answer my question? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #205

Wait, let me phone the CIA and find out for you. I'll let you know in a moment Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #206

You gave me a Wiki page. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #207

Oh, hold on, let me zoom to the future when all the data is collected, so I can Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #213

You know, you can just as easily say, "No." Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #227

Let's drop your pointless game. I'll continue to expose the truth, and you, the lies. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #228

Except when you can't actually tell me what your "truth" is. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #233

No, I told you what it is. You're the one insisting it is wrong because you support Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #237

No. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #242

Yeah right. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #244

You seem to have fallen for the myth of American Omnipotence more thoroughly than most Neocons... WatermelonRat Mar 2014 #154

If the original leader had been put there via a military coup, I might be tempted to believe you... Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #169

Thanks Catherina malaise Mar 2014 #12

Hi Malaise! Catherina Mar 2014 #25

You linked to Alex Jones ProSense Mar 2014 #14

No, the author linked to a youtube video there Catherina Mar 2014 #34

It's a link to Alex Jones. The video is being used to push the site's twisted garbage. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #38

then alert it bobduca Mar 2014 #65

That's the problem with TRUTH....... DeSwiss Mar 2014 #70

"Even Alex Jones can say truthful things on occasion." ProSense Mar 2014 #71

Funny...... DeSwiss Mar 2014 #75

Well, ProSense Mar 2014 #77

All beings are ''special'' to me. DeSwiss Mar 2014 #79

Bush is "special" to you. ProSense Mar 2014 #82

You can be their judge. DeSwiss Mar 2014 #83

I'm gonna bet you won't be deterred... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #16

I can't see them ;) Catherina Mar 2014 #28

Good for you.... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #32

Yes, let us consider the source. ieoeja Mar 2014 #173

Lol. Too funny. And this from the king, or queen, of self-delete to obliterate your record here Catherina Mar 2014 #183

PWNED! Rex Mar 2014 #192

It's too funny how some here think their indirect slandering won't be noticed Catherina Mar 2014 #195

Oh I noticed 4 or 5 people going directly into 'attack mode' as soon as they saw your name. Rex Mar 2014 #196

You are being taken for a ride. ieoeja Mar 2014 #201

It's always the same ones too lol. Catherina Mar 2014 #208

yowza! dionysus Mar 2014 #225

reccing hard frwrfpos Mar 2014 #21

I noticed that too. Thankfully there are many solid, respected authors out there Catherina Mar 2014 #30

Nice source: Paul Craig Roberts ProSense Mar 2014 #29

that may set the record backwoodsbob Mar 2014 #31

Wasn't it within the past few days... OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #35

Oh yeah, you remember that too, huh?? Number23 Mar 2014 #61

kick frwrfpos Mar 2014 #37

I dont see where the us would do anything different from moscow on this. RedstDem Mar 2014 #43

I don't either Catherina Mar 2014 #47

If the corporations support it, it must be a "democracy" worthy of our "protection". K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #49

They sure loved sponsoring Nuland's talk about Austerity and the IMF Catherina Mar 2014 #54

+1 jsr Mar 2014 #97

I'm glad you answered the call: who are the pro-Putin posters on DU?? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #50

Welcome back! hrmjustin Mar 2014 #51

Thanks Catherina Mar 2014 #58

Thank you, Catherina. I clicked on this link when I saw your name, Dems to Win Mar 2014 #52

Why thank you! And doubly so Catherina Mar 2014 #56

+1 nt Euphoria Mar 2014 #93

Glad to see someone supporting Russian Imperialism. Ikonoklast Mar 2014 #53

I've spent the last ten minutes looking for who was supporting Imperialism, Russian Imperialism and sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #98

From the article: Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #108

"You either support sovereign nations to have the government they decide to have, or you don't." polly7 Mar 2014 #111

And two wrongs don't make a right. Ikonoklast Mar 2014 #134

Or, it's being ignored for the bullshit it is in this case regarding Crimea. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #160

Catherina TomClash Mar 2014 #59

Willfully blind. No notice of the Cheney Advisor or PNAC neocons in the State Department either. Catherina Mar 2014 #78

People going apeshit over a single picture of two politicians in the political minority. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #137

do you like doing all of that extra formatting of bolding, adding images, etc? Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #63

Do you object to information being made clearly available? I don't, I don't always click links so sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #76

Hahahaha. It was a question without agenda Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #165

Courage. K&R nt TBF Mar 2014 #64

Nice work Catherina zeemike Mar 2014 #66

Thanks Zee Catherina Mar 2014 #129

Source page not found? blackspade Mar 2014 #68

CD's links have been messing up all afternoon (servr maintenance?) Catherina Mar 2014 #85

Thanks, but that doesn't address the terrible sourcing for the blackspade Mar 2014 #86

They're shopping for a war. DeSwiss Mar 2014 #73

k/r 840high Mar 2014 #80

god, you fall for russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker... dionysus Mar 2014 #90

our media is on par with theirs in the world of propaganda 2banon Mar 2014 #101

Catherina does not fall for Russian propaganda. ieoeja Mar 2014 #175

Seriously? I mean, seriously? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #91

this is how some people view the world JI7 Mar 2014 #103

Which is not to say it has never happened.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #110

Well, that's the Russian / Putinist narrative. joshcryer Mar 2014 #231

It's the conspiracy theory mindset... Springslips Mar 2014 #152

It's American exceptionalism, rebranded. joshcryer Mar 2014 #230

K&R'd 2banon Mar 2014 #95

Recommend jsr Mar 2014 #96

So happy to see you back. eom Cleita Mar 2014 #99

Thanks Cleita! Catherina Mar 2014 #125

Omg, that conversation between Nuland and Pyatt! Unbelievable! Americans should be outraged sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #100

It's plain as day that Nuland was there for a specific purpose. jsr Mar 2014 #123

I love how none of the detractors still have any comment on Nuland, her PNAC husband on the board Catherina Mar 2014 #130

Agreed- Unbelievable. "They WILL take the IMF deal!" Catherina Mar 2014 #128

The price they will have to pay for that. Already we are hearing about the takeover of people's sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #131

The rump parliament is ramming these things in before the people have a chance to revolt Catherina Mar 2014 #164

+1 woo me with science Mar 2014 #238

Poor beleaguered Russia--they didn't WANT to invade Ukraine, they had no choice. TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #104

Are you interested in knowing the facts about these issues? What do you think, eg, sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #133

"Airc we opposed Bush's policies. When did that change?" ProSense Mar 2014 #135

That old diversion thing doesn't work, haven't you learned that by now? We were behind the ousting sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #139

We didn't "oust" or overthrow anybody. TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #138

Did the people vote for our choice of leader? n/t sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #141

They're a transitional government, chosen by Parliament in the abdication TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #143

That doesn't answer my question. The leader was clearly the choice of the US sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #149

The articles say the Parliament chose the speaker of the Parliament to assume TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #150

They don't have to say anything, because we know now what was going on, all they need to say sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #161

Again, we need to deal in facts. Not conspiracy theories, not "connect the dots", not TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #163

Oh I agree, couldn't agree more in fact. Eg, we were told that the US was not at all involved sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #168

It is almost lol funny that DUers would read a report about the CIA monitoring Rex Mar 2014 #197

But isn't that the way the U.S. does things when it causes regime change? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #170

BUT WHEN WE DO IT Rex Mar 2014 #198

Oopsie! Yes, I do get it now! ;-) nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #203

Thank you. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #142

I'm following a fascinating series of comments ProSense Mar 2014 #144

Well if you can have a Muslim communist athiest President who attends a radical black church.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #145

You must spend a lot of time reading garbage from the totally discredited Faux Noose crowd, How do sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #171

Really kind of disturbing. TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #147

k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2014 #127

Fantastic. Much needed. Thanks for posting. n/t Smarmie Doofus Mar 2014 #132

Thanks Catherina Mar 2014 #158

K&R Please, everyone, distribute this beyond DU. woo me with science Mar 2014 #140

Thanks Woo Catherina Mar 2014 #159

Already have. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #204

Thanks for posting. I only have to fit in Verhofstadt BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #180

Please fit Verhofstadt in! Catherina Mar 2014 #187

He was there on 21st of february BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #191

"European values"? Like his austerity? LMAO Catherina Mar 2014 #209

Oops, wrong place. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #211

Thanks for the chronology and background info Catherina. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #212

I think Ukraine is to be the EU's new cheap labor. Labor there is cheaper than in China Catherina Mar 2014 #214

Not EU membership but the EU did offer Schengen visas. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #217

Yes, the beauty of deceptive packaging Catherina Mar 2014 #221

Kick for a great thread. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #215

Thanks Polly! Catherina Mar 2014 #222

Yup, the revolt had nothing to do with people starving and disgusted by a corrupt joeybee12 Mar 2014 #216

Why not post links to dispute the facts ? dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #218

I've been to the Ukraine...I have friends and family there...so unless you have... joeybee12 Mar 2014 #219

Spot price for gas is c. $400 / 1000 cu metres dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #220

Yeah, and they're all Nazis being lead astray by the West... joeybee12 Mar 2014 #223

Wow, now even Bozo the Clown has "friends and family' in the Ukraine! Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #229

I have an Uncle (in law) from the Ukraine .... that makes me Ukrainian too! polly7 Mar 2014 #239

Hey, I think I'm turning Ukrainian! nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #245

Then you might want to start by stop calling it "the Ukraine." Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #241

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 Mar 2014 #236

Yup. That's what this whole coup was about. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #246

When you see a PNAC'er passing out cookies... Oilwellian Mar 2014 #234

Nailed It! What's that expression? "One Picture is worth a Thousand Words?" KoKo Mar 2014 #240

kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #235