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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #17)

Wed Mar 21, 2012, 09:04 PM

25. Obviously, there's a difference of opinion here

Questionable prosecutions for not retreating were the cited cause.

But… It's a fact that Stand Your Ground was heavily advocated by the NRA as just another way that they play on the fears, anger and prejudices of Americans against a perceived existential threat of criminal behavior. Zimmerman didn't need to have any proof that Trayvon Martin was engaged in criminal behavior. But he did use the preexisting fears of criminalized black males to impel himself to act to "protect" his community.

The police gave him pretty of cover for that by allowing him to go free without any danger of arrest and prosecution.

The fact that the initial action of the police refused to arrest Zimmerman for either murder or manslaughter blows your "questionable prosecution…" argument of of the water.

Those who understand that being second guessed by people not there and often with little similar experience over action taken in a potentially life and death is not particularly helpful. In other words DAs who have never been mugged telling someone who just has been what they should have done.

Again, the NRA wants this to exist:
ALEC Has Pushed The NRA's "Stand Your Ground" Law Across The Nation
March 21, 2012 11:41 am ET by Matt Gertz

The legislation apparently preventing the successful prosecution of Trayvon Martin's killer was reportedly adopted by the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) as model legislation that the shadowy group has spent years promoting across the country with the help of their allies in the National Rifle Association.

Formed in 1973 by conservative activists including Paul Weyrich and state legislators like then-Illinois State Rep. Henry Hyde, ALEC has earned infamy throughout the progressive movement for its ability to promote model legislation favorable to its corporate funders through statehouses across the country.

Legal experts have noted that Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law may prevent George Zimmerman from ever being successfully prosecuted for the killing of Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman has claimed that he acted in self-defense, and court precedent indicates that the State has the heavy burden of disproving this in order to win a conviction.

Florida's statute on the use of force in self-defense is virtually identical to Section 1 of ALEC's Castle Doctrine Act model legislation as posted on the Center for Media and Democracy (CMD). According to CMD, the model bill was adopted by ALEC's Civil Justice Task in August 2005 -- just a few short months after it passed the Florida legislature -- and approved by its board of directors the following month.


In short, it's a Right Wing meme that's being imposed on American communities.

Legitimate self defense has nothing to do with fears and prejudices.

If people are being shot for nothing more than the crime of walking while black, we have a problem here.

Stand Your Ground has NOTHING to do with if deadly force was appropriate in any given circumstance. Those statutes remained unchanged, requiring a reasonable fear of great bodily injury or death.

What is the basis for your claim that "vast majority of people shot were unarmed"?

If your assertion is correct, then why was there a tremendous rise in justifiable homicides following the passage of the law?

But the law has also been used to excuse violence in deadly neighbor arguments, bar brawls, road rage — even a gang shoot-out — that just as easily might have ended with someone walking away.

Has it cheapened human life?

• • •

Miami's police chief made a prediction shortly before the law took effect:

"Whether it's trick-or-treaters or kids playing in the yard of someone who doesn't want them there or some drunk guy stumbling into the wrong house,'' Chief John Timoney told the New York Times, "you're encouraging people to possibly use deadly physical force where it shouldn't be used.''

Four years later, Billy Kuch got drunk, so drunk that at 5 a.m. one day he stumbled to the door of the wrong house in a look-alike neighborhood and tried to open it, twice.

Before the "stand your ground" law, homeowner Gregory Stewart would have been expected to hunker down in his Land O'Lakes residence, dead-bolt secure, and call police.

With the law in place, he could use deadly force anywhere he had a right to be, provided he felt threatened with death or great bodily harm. He had no duty to retreat from danger.

Stewart left his wife inside with their baby and stepped outside, gun in hand.

Kuch put his hands up and asked for a light.

"Please don't make me shoot you," Stewart said.

Kuch, then 23, says he might have stumbled. Stewart, then 32, told police the unarmed man took three steps forward.

The bullet ripped into Kuch's chest, nicked his heart, shot through his liver, in and out of his stomach, through his spleen, then out his back. He felt like his body was on fire.


If you love justifiable homicides, then Stand Your Ground is just the law for you

Florida Statute 776.013 (3)
"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
Justifiable homicide
Reports of justifiable homicides in Florida
2010 (through June)44
Source: Florida Department of Law Enforcement

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MrScorpio Mar 2012 OP
sikorsky Mar 2012 #1
SamG Mar 2012 #2
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SamG Mar 2012 #31
Taverner Mar 2012 #4
arcane1 Mar 2012 #5
X_Digger Mar 2012 #8
arcane1 Mar 2012 #9
ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #14
arcane1 Mar 2012 #30
sikorsky Mar 2012 #6
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ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #15
sikorsky Mar 2012 #16
MrScorpio Mar 2012 #7
Vincardog Mar 2012 #13
ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #17
Hoyt Mar 2012 #23
LineLineLineLineReply Obviously, there's a difference of opinion here
MrScorpio Mar 2012 #25
shcrane71 Mar 2012 #32
sikorsky Mar 2012 #18
MrScorpio Mar 2012 #21
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Chorophyll Mar 2012 #34
dmkinsey Mar 2012 #36
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