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In reply to the discussion: Did you hear Crystal Ball's rant on the Cycle asking Hillary not to run? [View all]cascadiance
(19,537 posts)402. And THAT is why your graph is meaningless, especially the top and bottom "measurement"...
The top and bottom only measures "labels" and not something measurable (like how much power the people have versus centralized power, which is NOT a left or right measurement. The measurement of level of authoritarian control makes a two dimensional graph that has left and right on the other axis more meaningful). It doesn't measure this BECAUSE it IS trying to mislead those looking at it whether a candidate has REAL traditional democratic party values, which it has left out! Why change from the older more useful graph methodology unless there isn't an agenda like this?
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Did you hear Crystal Ball's rant on the Cycle asking Hillary not to run? [View all]
mfcorey1
Feb 2014
OP
As I recall, Obama's campaign made themselves look like they were primarilyl
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#490
Hillary will win and you and I will continue to lose as corporations are given more power.
JRLeft
Feb 2014
#27
Unless of course the truth be told that Hillary Clinton is to the Left of President Obama...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#32
I'm not getting that graph. Which does the red dot represent? Social or economic issues? n/t
cui bono
Feb 2014
#101
I get the left and right, that's obvious. I asked what the red dot represents. I can't figure out
cui bono
Feb 2014
#112
It may be accurate for Paul, but it most definitely is not for Obama and Clinton.
cui bono
Feb 2014
#117
Yes it is.....denial is not a river in Egypt and Americans are not as "lefty" as those on DU...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#119
No it's not. What is so left about TPP, cutting SS, spying on American citizens, drone strikes
cui bono
Feb 2014
#121
I am not talking about my view, I am talking about the view of the person who made that graph
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#135
How is the top/bottom range calculated? This isn't the traditional measurement for these graphs
cascadiance
Feb 2014
#386
It is NOT the same graph! Where is the point in the repeated graph where one end is AUTHORITARIAN
cascadiance
Feb 2014
#501
A populist-liberal whose financial support comes from Goldman Sachs and Walmart?
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#336
there are more than issues than those that makes a person "left" sorry....
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#134
Why can't you just answer the question? Why can't you provide a list of left things he has done?
cui bono
Feb 2014
#136
No you are not using FACTS....you are using YOUR opinion...there IS a difference.
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#166
That chart would absurdly suggest Rand Paul is closer to a moderate than Hillary is
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#125
Then why does the graph put Rand Paul closer to the center than it does Hillary?
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#132
Why does it matter? I think this chart is totally meaningless no matter who it represents
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#159
No. Quotes and speeches are not facts when it comes to representing a politician's stance.
cui bono
Feb 2014
#174
I KNOW! You do understand that when they use speeches in addition to votes it skews things,
cui bono
Feb 2014
#176
If they think that you should consider a politician's empty promises when determining where they
cui bono
Feb 2014
#186
I have no idea what yours are....go take the test...its available there...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#205
Holy crap looking at those questions makes the chart look even more stupid
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#213
Only stupid to someone that denies Political Science is real science....
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#226
There is NO place for authoritarianism in this graph, that older graphs measured.
cascadiance
Feb 2014
#391
And THAT is why your graph is meaningless, especially the top and bottom "measurement"...
cascadiance
Feb 2014
#402
It moves the needle the needle a tick or two...doesn't change the fact that he is a
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#192
That's not all they use. You are being purposely ingenuous or you are incredibly stupid.
cui bono
Feb 2014
#414
YES all they use....quotes hold up in a court of law as direct EVIDENCE!
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#419
NO I havent....you are trying to prove some bullshit about quotes not being FACTS
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#422
My post about how to read the graph was not a reply to your post - it was to someone else.
whopis01
Feb 2014
#471
So what? THOSE are evidence too....would they NOT be used in a court of law?
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#413
omg... seriously? Wow. You are so far gone it's mind boggling. Words are facts???
cui bono
Feb 2014
#418
Yeah serious.....Yes YOUR words CAN be used against you in a court of LAW
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#420
We aren't discussing criteria used to pick who to vote for, we are discussing the illegitimacy
cui bono
Feb 2014
#441
That is not evidence of their track record since they include quotes which mean nothing
cui bono
Feb 2014
#165
They certainly don't call it peer review, they don't even call it science
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#218
And I often look at more than 25 issues when making a personal opinion on a candidate
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#257
Well I guess you could say I look at more than 25 categories of issues as well
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#260
If you tried presenting your arguments in this thread as a thesis you would get a big fat F
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#267
I am not using OPINION .....I have data Apparently YOU don't know what hearsay is...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#426
they're ALL right there for you to see for yourself...why do I need to repeat any of them
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#433
Oh yes there are...look at the page...above the graph...it shows the metrics right there...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#485
and this disproves my graph how? As I said...if YOU think you can run today WITHOUT
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#459
bullshit...she may not be as far left on economic issues as you would like....but its bullshit
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#491
i'm using the issue that I believe will be uppermost in people's minds in 2016.
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#493
What I am saying is that I think that voters who go to the polls in 2016 will go
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#502
NO its not based on opinions....its based on the answers the candidates have in each
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#505
But what I am trying to explain is that the questions themselves reveal a bias,
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#509
That chart is the very definition of 'emptiness'. Jeez... what a pretty picture!
delrem
Feb 2014
#233
How many of those people were you familiar with before you copied and pasted their names?
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#292
Do you not consider them experts...they have been doing this since 2000....
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#293
As I said repeatedly I get my info from those same sources, I use objective fadts to form my opinion
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#298
BUT you are not compiling them and using algorithms to come to your conclusions...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#300
Nate Silver did not make these graphs, his methodology is very different
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#358
You obviously don't understand the difference between polling data and political ideology
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#462
Its not about polling....its about SCIENCE....and whether it is science..
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#463
When totally desperate.....find a way to compare them to George w. Bush!
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#498
Words from speeches and press releases are not objective facts when it comes to determining where
cui bono
Feb 2014
#308
Why can't you understand that when you mix in non-facts like speeches and campaign websites
cui bono
Feb 2014
#313
No I won't.....I haven't convinced you because you refuse to accept the facts laid before you...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#317
I am sure Nate Silver would agree there is nothing to be found in dots...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#311
Now there's the correct chart...can easily be verified by the facts AND through simple observation.
NorthCarolina
Feb 2014
#378
LOL...photoshop much? No thinking person would buy what those charts purportedly represent.
NorthCarolina
Feb 2014
#362
they signed it and all agreed to "encourage" (that word you were looking for remember)
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#211
Yeah well when she becomes President after Hillary I am sure you will see....
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#197
You don't have to agree with it...but NO one yet has had more credible evidence that she isn't
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#528
It's time we talk about economic justice. That has been a taboo topic since Reagan.
JDPriestly
May 2014
#531
Clinton-Sachs may be progressive on social issues, but she is not the one to
rhett o rick
Feb 2014
#6
Her dad did his dissertation on crystals, so maybe she is honoring him by keeping it. n/t
dorkzilla
Feb 2014
#82
Yes, that's what I said. The question posed was "why wouldn't she change her name". n/t
dorkzilla
Feb 2014
#444
I think she and her husband or too tied into the Wall Street thieves. Also her
arthritisR_US
Feb 2014
#38
I guess I'm like Chrystal, I was for her the first time but her position on
arthritisR_US
Feb 2014
#57
If it came down that she won the nomination for prez, there's no way I wouldn't support
arthritisR_US
Feb 2014
#64
and I do....and I knew before Barack Obama won the primary that Hillary was left of him
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#66
Their work is based on past results. Their work is not relevant to a time of as much
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#335
Me either....but I guarantee you in one way or another you have benefitted.
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#322
we DO have a shortage of Dr's and Nurses...they use the H1B visas too...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#279
Yes they are.....but we are still having a shortage that will continue
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#396
And many radiologists have been outsourced because X-Rays can be sent overseas in a minute or so...
cascadiance
Feb 2014
#389
THAT is malarkey.....we don't have enough Drs and Nurses...THAT is a fact
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#397
And overseas like India they SUBSIDIZE their education while our kids have more college debt!
cascadiance
Feb 2014
#417
Whenever I hear "extreme left" it usually means someone who's to the left of Bill O'Reilly.
Iggo
Feb 2014
#24
Exactly. But the centrists/corporatists like to try to label the real left as extreme so they can
cui bono
Feb 2014
#177
I am talking about a real Stalinist, not a teabaggers uninformed ramblings of what a Stalinist is
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#255
I don't think that Elizabeth Warren is all that to the left. I think she is quite middle-class
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#341
and those are the ONLY Liberals YOU can even think of based on a very narrow
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#45
I DO know what kind of "stuff" goes around on DU about it....I take it you concur...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#157
Exactly. The Rs put their fringe front and center and thier corporate office, FoxNoise,
Dark n Stormy Knight
Feb 2014
#393
MSNBC is owned by extreme right corporations. They fired olbermann & Cenk.
grahamhgreen
Feb 2014
#327
Okay, pay attention before you respond. I said in 2006. That was before the primaries started.
cui bono
Feb 2014
#283
Your "little directions" mean nothing to me...believe me I PAY attention...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#285
In the past 30 years, no potential candidate has had to face the kind of attacks that Hillary
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#343
I intentially did not remark on a specific candidate. There are a lot of demographics that go into
lostincalifornia
Feb 2014
#273
Simple fact is....Hillary Clinton can win...and most likely WILL win...
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#65
Except Hillary would BE another George Bush. Just another corporatist forced upon the voters. nt
NorthCarolina
Feb 2014
#415
People are waking up to the economic inequality, and Hillary will not do anything to
liberal_at_heart
Feb 2014
#75
Since you have expressed a strong opinion, who do you think would make a viable candidate?
lostincalifornia
Feb 2014
#277
the right person is anyone who can beat the GOP in spite of massive GOP fraud and voter suppression
stg81
Feb 2014
#83
I will support that Democrat who I determine has the best chance of winning.
DemocratSinceBirth
Feb 2014
#153
I like her too and believe she can win. Great minds run on the same track.
Auntie Bush
Feb 2014
#184
Hillary may run or not, but I'm sure that Warren meant it when she said that she was not running.
Beacool
Feb 2014
#247
The person I vote for may not win, but at least I know I will be voting for the change I want.
liberal_at_heart
Feb 2014
#299
At this time, there aren't any, but I would not rule out the possibility of one
JDPriestly
Feb 2014
#390
I didn't click on the link. Does the person provide any credible alternatives?
Pretzel_Warrior
Feb 2014
#303
Hillary disqualified herself when she voted for Bush's war, prevaricated over torture and supported
sabrina 1
Feb 2014
#306
No, because I had to disconnect the cable. The money to pay for it is with some rentier.
jtuck004
Feb 2014
#333
After reading this thread (yes, I read all of it), I have come to one conclusion:
Buns_of_Fire
Feb 2014
#357
When you click on the graphic for your post, a list comes up with some of the most vile lies about
mfcorey1
Feb 2014
#367
I love how people become political experts after losing very winnable districts. nt
TheMathieu
Feb 2014
#369
I didn't make the connection until now because her name didn't mean anything to me.
Beacool
Feb 2014
#374
the site explains their methodology...you are welcome to go there and read it yourself.
VanillaRhapsody
Feb 2014
#400
Don't have time to read the comments, but this is powerful. Wow. Shifted my begruding support
libdem4life
Feb 2014
#438
How does "begrudging support" "trash" Hillary? I'm Left Liberal and I don't condescendingly sneer
libdem4life
Feb 2014
#516
In case anyone is interested, Krystal did not make the decision do this segment lightly
DFW
Feb 2014
#451
Count me in the "Amen Corner". Maybe she just broke through the Inevitable Ceiling, just a bit.n/t
libdem4life
Feb 2014
#517